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[Xangi]

On the topic of pain: people rarely ever lose consciousness due to pain. It's usually the trauma involved which causes that. A bolt to the leg wouldn't knock you out until you started to go into shock. A broken arm wouldn't knock you out, though the pain would likely slow you down.

Edit: Typing on tablet so I can't fully explain the idea. It's complex but suffice to say the vanilla pain values are a bit much in bones, and too little in organs. Pain in DF is really more of a "trauma meter" in a lot of ways.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I'm not sure if it's a bug so I think I'll ask here. Is the various bandit parties being so... polite, normal? I mean, I started one adventurer that had been targeted by a bandit party at the outset for some reason. The bandits moved in, and... struck up a conversation. About the weather and the recent events. They did nothing else, just milled around, chatted a lot, agreed to join me on my adventures, and prevented me from 'T'raveling away because "I don't feel safe enough", even when I moved away and the only bandit nearby was the one that joined me as a companion. Later, another adventurer encountered a goblin bandit group that's been "harrassing people on the street" by apparently clashing terribly with their green skin color against the red sand color of everything else, because they did nothing but mill around and chat. The one time a brawl did start with the bandits, it was initiated by one of the regular townspeople. Something odd is going on there, and I'm not sure if it's just a limitation of the speech engine (i.e. there is no option to "threaten violence" in the dialogue) or a behavior bug of some form.

[iceball3]

I'm not sure if it's a bug so I think I'll ask here. Is the various bandit parties being so... polite, normal? I mean, I started one adventurer that had been targeted by a bandit party at the outset for some reason. The bandits moved in, and... struck up a conversation. About the weather and the recent events. They did nothing else, just milled around, chatted a lot, agreed to join me on my adventures, and prevented me from 'T'raveling away because "I don't feel safe enough", even when I moved away and the only bandit nearby was the one that joined me as a companion. Later, another adventurer encountered a goblin bandit group that's been "harrassing people on the street" by apparently clashing terribly with their green skin color against the red sand color of everything else, because they did nothing but mill around and chat. The one time a brawl did start with the bandits, it was initiated by one of the regular townspeople. Something odd is going on there, and I'm not sure if it's just a limitation of the speech engine (i.e. there is no option to "threaten violence" in the dialogue) or a behavior bug of some form.

What exactly was your behavior and standing with the bandits? By the way it sounds, considering that you didn't engage them or have any quarrel with them, and either appeared too capable (and non associated to guards etc) for yourself to be worth the trouble or too lacking in anything valuable to pilfer. The sort of situation that is going on here is that you just met some guys in the woods who make a hobby of harassing peasants and general citizens for their things. Being a lone adventurer doesn't really default you to being "righteous", eh? Considering you didn't attack them and sort of practically joined with them by asking for partnership with one of them, then would've assumed that you're pretty much the sort of person that would be useful to have around.
Now it would be pretty nifty to have some sort of sign ingame that you were part of a town guard of hired blade to guard a caravan if you chose to do so. In those situations, then you'd have all out attacks coming from bandits, i believe, as you're the sort that'd give them trouble. See, it's not really a bandits job to just go around attacking just anyone, see? It's not resource efficient if you attack potential recruits, especially with no pre-existing hostility. Now if you made a name for yourself slaying bandits and whatnot, then i'm assuming the system doesn't exactly keep track of that in which case, yes, behavior in that sect could use tweaking. But i'm not quite sure whether it tracks that or not, it'll need testing.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I'm not sure if it's a bug so I think I'll ask here. Is the various bandit parties being so... polite, normal? I mean, I started one adventurer that had been targeted by a bandit party at the outset for some reason. The bandits moved in, and... struck up a conversation. About the weather and the recent events. They did nothing else, just milled around, chatted a lot, agreed to join me on my adventures, and prevented me from 'T'raveling away because "I don't feel safe enough", even when I moved away and the only bandit nearby was the one that joined me as a companion. Later, another adventurer encountered a goblin bandit group that's been "harrassing people on the street" by apparently clashing terribly with their green skin color against the red sand color of everything else, because they did nothing but mill around and chat. The one time a brawl did start with the bandits, it was initiated by one of the regular townspeople. Something odd is going on there, and I'm not sure if it's just a limitation of the speech engine (i.e. there is no option to "threaten violence" in the dialogue) or a behavior bug of some form.

What exactly was your behavior and standing with the bandits? By the way it sounds, considering that you didn't engage them or have any quarrel with them, and either appeared too capable (and non associated to guards etc) for yourself to be worth the trouble or too lacking in anything valuable to pilfer. The sort of situation that is going on here is that you just met some guys in the woods who make a hobby of harassing peasants and general citizens for their things. Being a lone adventurer doesn't really default you to being "righteous", eh? Considering you didn't attack them and sort of practically joined with them by asking for partnership with one of them, then would've assumed that you're pretty much the sort of person that would be useful to have around.
Now it would be pretty nifty to have some sort of sign ingame that you were part of a town guard of hired blade to guard a caravan if you chose to do so. In those situations, then you'd have all out attacks coming from bandits, i believe, as you're the sort that'd give them trouble. See, it's not really a bandits job to just go around attacking just anyone, see? It's not resource efficient if you attack potential recruits, especially with no pre-existing hostility. Now if you made a name for yourself slaying bandits and whatnot, then i'm assuming the system doesn't exactly keep track of that in which case, yes, behavior in that sect could use tweaking. But i'm not quite sure whether it tracks that or not, it'll need testing.

The problem in the first case was that I'd literally just started out. As a peasant. Just stepped out of the house I started in. The bandits were harassing the peasants, and me specifically - I was with weapons sheathed, walking on the street. Two approached, a third - from a good few dozen meters away - yells at me about the nice chilly weather. I'd love to keep going away, but they are all following me. I recruited two to go with me, and just darted for the woods. One got lost in the woods, I still couldn't travel, then the other got lost in the woods as well, just as I circled back to the settlement. The first one that got lost was there. At about this point a fisher dropkicked the bandit hammerlord in the head from behind, and a massive brawl started, with the first guy who agreed to join me reverting to bandit status. I tried jumpkicking somebody by sprinting and jumping at them (it doesn't work. Feature request?), took a beating, then beat feet while everybody was too busy to follow me.

The problem I think is that the bandits don't know how to harass people that don't really have anything on them. Technically I was from the same town that they were harassing, but they didn't know what to do besides follow me and chat.

[Bloax]

On the topic of pain: people rarely ever lose consciousness due to pain. It's usually the trauma involved which causes that. A bolt to the leg wouldn't knock you out until you started to go into shock. A broken arm wouldn't knock you out, though the pain would likely slow you down.

In fact, losing consciousness in the sense of getting "knocked out" requires a very severe amount of head damage.
Getting nigh-paralyzed in the sense of being severely slowed down due to the excruciating pain is much closer to reality.

and either way the values look extremely placeholder-y due to how monotone they are, and what placeholder would you prefer; one that actually allows weapon balance or the one where everyone faints for half an hour from a broken toe?

[therahedwig]

On the topic of pain: people rarely ever lose consciousness due to pain. It's usually the trauma involved which causes that. A bolt to the leg wouldn't knock you out until you started to go into shock. A broken arm wouldn't knock you out, though the pain would likely slow you down.

In fact, losing consciousness in the sense of getting "knocked out" requires a very severe amount of head damage.
Getting nigh-paralyzed in the sense of being severely slowed down due to the excruciating pain is much closer to reality.

and either way the values look extremely placeholder-y due to how monotone they are, and what placeholder would you prefer; one that actually allows weapon balance or the one where everyone faints for half an hour from a broken toe?

Then why don't the modders band together to create more realistic raws... wasn't there a medicine  student who was doing exactly this?

I mean, sure that wouldn't fix the "extreme pain knocks you out"-logic, but it would be a start. Toady has before accepted more realistic tree raws so...

Edit: Here it is.

[Dante]

I'm not sure if it's a bug so I think I'll ask here. Is the various bandit parties being so... polite, normal?

Yeah, I think they could stand to have their viciousness tweaked upward a little, since they seem to default to 'cordial'.

[yarr]

Other bug fixes/tweaks
   (*) Made farm plant list refresh properly with season selection

I think this is still broken?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Sean Mirrsen]

Okay, so something is wrong with threat assessment in kobolds. I just had to do a whole lot of pressing Alt+y to kill a lot of kobolds, who refused to acknowledge my slaughtering them by the dozens and just stood there, milling around, only occasionally fighting back when an attack from me didn't kill them in one hit. Maybe it's a related problem to the over-friendly bandits? The kobolds refused to fight me until I started to fight them, individually, considering me friendly despite all evidence to the contrary.



Or maybe it has to do with their utterances? With the changes to the speech and thought engines, maybe they can no longer form coherent thoughts, and thus can't react?

[Bobnova]

Climbing seems to be causing a bit of an issue.
I found a lovely embark with two rivers, one at the top of a ~15z cliff and the other at the bottom. Had all sorts of plans, but the dwarves are going cliff climbing and drowning after falling overboard. One too a cat with it too, that was sort of amusing. Especially when the cat landed on the dwarf in the river.

Some sort of tweak to movement types and climbing likelihood would be nice! I really like that they can climb, but I'd rather that they didn't unless they had to.
In the mean time, I'll figure something out.

[Tawa]

Kobolds do have a problem, they can't actually talk anymore.

'Tis saddening.

[dree12]

I'm not sure if it's a bug so I think I'll ask here. Is the various bandit parties being so... polite, normal?

Yeah, I think they could stand to have their viciousness tweaked upward a little, since they seem to default to 'cordial'.

I recruited a companion and she told me to attack some bandits. I go to the bandit camp, but the bandits aren't hostile at all. They greet me like anyone else would. Then I kill the bandit commander and my companion is shocked, and says to be "Let's not hurt anybody" or something like that. Then I recruit a few of the remaining bandits and they gladly join me. After a while, they start attacking my first companion. I attacked the bandit and then talked to the first companion, who spit at me and called me a murderer. The game crashed shortly afterwards. Ah, Dwarf Fortress...

[Xangi]

Okay, so something is wrong with threat assessment in kobolds. I just had to do a whole lot of pressing Alt+y to kill a lot of kobolds, who refused to acknowledge my slaughtering them by the dozens and just stood there, milling around, only occasionally fighting back when an attack from me didn't kill them in one hit. Maybe it's a related problem to the over-friendly bandits? The kobolds refused to fight me until I started to fight them, individually, considering me friendly despite all evidence to the contrary.

image

Or maybe it has to do with their utterances? With the changes to the speech and thought engines, maybe they can no longer form coherent thoughts, and thus can't react?

This is a common AI problem I find. It's made adventure nearly unplayable for the time being since all civs in all of my worlds exhibit some degree of this.

[MarcAFK]

So essentially the world has been activated, and everyone else is as batshit insane as our dwarves?
Makes sense.

[Bloax]

If dwarves are defined by their boundless passivity, then yes.