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It makes me sad. So very very sad.

58 (49.6%)

I think it's great!

26 (22.2%)

I'm indifferent.

33 (28.2%)

Total Members Voted: 115

[Willfor]

Goblins are killed over race.

Really, this is just Dwarf Fortress. It isn't airy fairy.

Actually, I see wayyyyyyy more racism against elves and goblins by the player base than I see from the game itself where these species can all get along nicely so long as they are part of the same civilization entity. The meme status of racism against elves is pretty much a giant pet peeve of mine amongst this community but that doesn't seem to be a thing that will ever go away, so, what can you do?

Anyway, I'm generally for complexities in personal interactions. Society is built from a large number of individuals believing largely the same thing on an individual-to-individual basis, so I am not actually for entities believing in any particular ethic, but each individual contributing to the overall mass of what ethics are acceptable to an entity. Give me complexity. Feed me this complexity. I must feast upon it.

[TD1]

Yes, I suppose that is true enough. I was thinking along the lines of glacier fortresses, or the Dwarven civ already being gone. I have had a few forts like that, and children are like little gems.

[Sumyunguy]

Imagine if all your starting seven were gay, and after that there was a high percentage of gays. It would have too low a child yield, especially in forts that need children. I don't like it as a feature at all, but I could live with/mod it out.

What fort has ever, seriously, needed children? A baby born in a fortress takes twelve years to become a useful adult. How many of you here routinely have fortresses that last for twelve years without migrants? Whenever I play for a few seasons, I'm up to my ears in scores of migrants. I've been a heavy player of dwarf fortress for five years now, and I've not once been dependent on children born in my fortress. And if you even have a handful of opposite-sex couples, they'll crank out a baby each every year for over a century.

So I think that the whole "but we need babies!" argument really, really doesn't hold water in dwarf fortress.

But who's gonna harvest all those plump helmets?

[Jacob/Lee]

What fort has ever, seriously, needed children? A baby born in a fortress takes twelve years to become a useful adult. How many of you here routinely have fortresses that last for twelve years without migrants? Whenever I play for a few seasons, I'm up to my ears in scores of migrants. I've been a heavy player of dwarf fortress for five years now, and I've not once been dependent on children born in my fortress. And if you even have a handful of opposite-sex couples, they'll crank out a baby each every year for over a century.

So I think that the whole "but we need babies!" argument really, really doesn't hold water in dwarf fortress.

This could be a more useful argument in the future, when our fortresses don't have the weight of half the threats to sentience crashing down on them regularly, locking them in permanent turmoil that destroys the fort. And when dwarves can emigrate/be deported/exiled to other sites in the civilization or given to armies on the march as soldiers.

[dbay]

Imagine if all your starting seven were gay, and after that there was a high percentage of gays. It would have too low a child yield, especially in forts that need children. I don't like it as a feature at all, but I could live with/mod it out.

I guess that could be an issue if you were dealing with a fort that 1. included an entirely gay starting seven, 2. had an unusually high number of gay dwarves, and 3. lived long enough for children to have ANY value whatsoever.

Honestly, you'd be more likely to start out in the middle of a volcano, or on a frozen lake that melted instantly. And remember-- Losing is Fun! Wouldn't that weird, statistical outlier that was your one 100% gay fortress be one of your most memorable ones ever?

[Putnam]

Imagine if all your starting seven were gay, and after that there was a high percentage of gays. It would have too low a child yield, especially in forts that need children. I don't like it as a feature at all, but I could live with/mod it out.

The chance of your starting seven being gay is 0.00000001042842864990234375%. That's completely and utterly so not a chance that you shouldn't even be considering the possibility.

[Broseph Stalin]

Yes, I suppose that is true enough. I was thinking along the lines of glacier fortresses, or the Dwarven civ already being gone. I have had a few forts like that, and children are like little gems.

Those are forts that people play SPECIFICALLY because they're difficult to survive in. This is one more obstacle you would face only if you had exceedingly bad luck and can be solved by editing one line of code.

[sal880612m]

Imagine if all your starting seven were gay, and after that there was a high percentage of gays. It would have too low a child yield, especially in forts that need children. I don't like it as a feature at all, but I could live with/mod it out.

I guess that could be an issue if you were dealing with a fort that 1. included an entirely gay starting seven, 2. had an unusually high number of gay dwarves, and 3. lived long enough for children to have ANY value whatsoever.

Honestly, you'd be more likely to start out in the middle of a volcano, or on a frozen lake that melted instantly. And remember-- Losing is Fun! Wouldn't that weird, statistical outlier that was your one 100% gay fortress be one of your most memorable ones ever?

I like the idea of playing from starting seven and stopping all immigration and relying only on childbirth to grow my fortress. It doesn't take the entire seven being gay to stop this it takes the wrong two. Actually the new mechanics are mostly unhelpful all together in this with the addition of not only homosexuals, but asexuals, and commitment phobes. It isn't even that I don't want to play if gay marriage. Are you saying wanting to play a fort the way I have described is horrible and wrong and my opinion deserves to be ingored or dismissed in favor of yours or others?

I also wish someone would either correct my understanding of how the system currently works or actually take a better look before saying this is a non-issue.

[TD1]

As I said, I don't really care as long as it's moddable out.

[wierd]

Imagine if all your starting seven were gay, and after that there was a high percentage of gays. It would have too low a child yield, especially in forts that need children. I don't like it as a feature at all, but I could live with/mod it out.

I guess that could be an issue if you were dealing with a fort that 1. included an entirely gay starting seven, 2. had an unusually high number of gay dwarves, and 3. lived long enough for children to have ANY value whatsoever.

Honestly, you'd be more likely to start out in the middle of a volcano, or on a frozen lake that melted instantly. And remember-- Losing is Fun! Wouldn't that weird, statistical outlier that was your one 100% gay fortress be one of your most memorable ones ever?

I like the idea of playing from starting seven and stopping all immigration and relying only on childbirth to grow my fortress. It doesn't take the entire seven being gay to stop this it takes the wrong two. Actually the new mechanics are mostly unhelpful all together in this with the addition of not only homosexuals, but asexuals, and commitment phobes. It isn't even that I don't want to play if gay marriage. Are you saying wanting to play a fort the way I have described is horrible and wrong and my opinion deserves to be ingored or dismissed in favor of yours or others?

I also wish someone would either correct my understanding of how the system currently works or actually take a better look before saying this is a non-issue.

As it stands now, there is a distribution algorithm with some baked-in defaults that defines what percentages of babies born for a specific species will have what sexual orientations.  There are tags to control this, but they are not currently in the raw files, so the internal defaults get used everywhere.
 
You can manually add those tags, and control the distributions manually. In this way, you can make 100% of X species "Gay", "Straight", "Bisexual", or "Asexual" at your whim.

The brewhaha came up over personal ethical squeamishness about the implications of homosexuality as it relates to cultures and cultural norms, and the tensions this causes. (Homophobia, et al. Personally, I think the REAL jewel to be had is in Elven culture, where i see sexuality in general to be widely accepted in all forms-- except for asexuality. Elven culture springs forth from being essentially immortal-- and so long lasting, and diverse family structures would be "expected!" as a cultural norm, and asexual people are dead-ends in that respect for the most part-- As such, I think asexual elves would be... discriminated against.. in their cultural envelope. Remember, a marriage is a joining of two whole FAMILIES-- and elves live a VERY long time, and have VERY big families. An elf that never marries, does not bring the same cultural value that one that marries does, even when no children are born from the union. )

The values are modifiiable, but this is a very new release, and many things are being fixed/revised. I was just voicing an opinion about the not-quite-good practice of applying the same statistical spreads everywhere, and treating everyone as if they were humans with funny voices.

[Putnam]

As I said, I don't really care as long as it's moddable out.

...you're modding out 0.00000001042842864990234375%. I can't even think of anything that unlikely in Dwarf Fortress. It is literally the least likely thing I have seen in my entire time modding or playing this game.

[Sumyunguy]

As I said, I don't really care as long as it's moddable out.

...you're modding out 0.00000001042842864990234375%. I can't even think of anything that unlikely in Dwarf Fortress. It is literally the least likely thing I have seen in my entire time modding or playing this game.

If the man wants to mod his game, let him. If someone wanted to mod out pinky fingers, it's his decision, no matter how pointless it seems to someone else.

[TD1]

As I said, I don't really care as long as it's moddable out.

...you're modding out 0.00000001042842864990234375%. I can't even think of anything that unlikely in Dwarf Fortress. It is literally the least likely thing I have seen in my entire time modding or playing this game.

Boy, you're like a bloody dog with a bone.

I'm not specifically speaking of the starting seven being gay. First off, I said "imagine if." I knew it wasn't much of a possibility, and used the most extreme example possible, instead of saying "one of the starting seven was gay." Sure, I didn't know exactly how long the odds were, but shoot me. Secondly, me saying it's okay if I can mod it out was in reference to the entire gay feature in general, not in relation to the starting seven. One reason is the children. The other is that homosexuality doesn't suit my perception of dwarves, and would spoil my immersion. Other races, such as humans, I could see. So yes, I'll tailor the game so it seems more realistic to me.

So I don't care about the odds of a dwarf being gay.

[Rum]

(removed)

[Mictlantecuhtli]

I'm not specifically speaking of the starting seven being gay. First off, I said "imagine if." I knew it wasn't much of a possibility, and used the most extreme example possible, instead of saying "one of the starting seven was gay." Sure, I didn't know exactly how long the odds were, but shoot me. Secondly, me saying it's okay if I can mod it out was in reference to the entire gay feature in general, not in relation to the starting seven. One reason is the children. The other is that homosexuality doesn't suit my perception of dwarves, and would spoil my immersion. Other races, such as humans, I could see. So yes, I'll tailor the game so it seems more realistic to me.

So I don't care about the odds of a dwarf being gay.

Alrighty then, mod it. That's my discussion on your opinion of what dwarves should and shouldn't act like in respect to this. You can even go the full length and make all civilizations hostile to people who don't accept tradition and the importance of raising a family -- all without complaining about it.