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Author Topic: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales  (Read 18338 times)

mnjiman

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Re: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2014, 08:30:11 pm »
What is the total size and the weight of the sperm whale? It seems it could be possible that the density of the whale is low enough that it does take into account its fall speed + amount of impact that occurs when it hits another object. I am not sure how calculations are done now, however I know that it is kinda of wonky atm.

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I was thinking more along the lines of this legendary champion, all clad in dented and dinged up steel plate, his blood-drenched axe slung over his back, a notch in the handle for every enemy that saw the swing of that blade as the last sight they ever saw, a battered shield strapped over his arm... and a fluffy, pink stuffed hippo hidden discretely in his breastplate.

Neo_Spade

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Re: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2014, 08:47:18 pm »
Quote from: mnjiman on July 11, 2014, 08:30:11 pm
What is the total size and the weight of the sperm whale? It seems it could be possible that the density of the whale is low enough that it does take into account its fall speed + amount of impact that occurs when it hits another object. I am not sure how calculations are done now, however I know that it is kinda of wonky atm.

The Sperm Whale has a size of 25,000,000 cm3 and is the largest normal creature in the game. In addition I've also dropped Giant Sperm Whales too, which are 200,000,000 cm3, and is _the_ largest creature in the game. I'll try and get a guy pinned/stunned again and try dropping Giant ones on him successfully (which is incredibly hard :S). Then again, it might just be the fairly short distance that they're falling in arena mode, with only like 8~10 levels for it to drop maybe the momentum doesn't pick up enough to flatten a Dwarf. I'm also not sure what number to look at in the raws to determine density of the creature, is there one that I'm overlooking?

Also, as an aside: naked Dwarves sweat a lot in the arena, maybe they're aware of the horrors that await them there?
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Quote from: Nasikabatrachus on July 11, 2014, 04:55:57 pm
If you've got dwarf problems, I feel bad for you, son.
I've got 99 whales because I killed Urist with one.

Neo_Spade

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Re: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2014, 11:21:40 am »
Ah-ha! I have found a way to do it. First the results of the failed attempts:

#1 - All the Whales at once
Quote
The Dwarf is placed with no equipment and no skills, above the Dwarf many Sperm Whales are placed by the almighty hand of Armok.
The Dwarf is then subjected to becoming a mindless slave via the use of Adventure Mode to prevent freewill from allowing him to walk away.

Result :
Quote
Try as one may, this method provides nothing but a lot of dead Whales and a dabbling dodger.


#2 - All the Whales, staggered
Quote
The Dwarf conditions are kept the same, but this time, via use of the "." key.
The Whales are allowed to fall a bit before the next bunch are placed, thus allowing for layering.

Result :
Quote
Inconsistant. Sometimes the Dwarf is hit, only as a result of another Whale attacking him, thus stopping him from being able to dodge.
This is infrequent however, as the Whales are usually too busy ripping each other to pieces, or trying to "Stand Up".


#3 - 100 Iron Minecarts
Quote
The Dwarf is kept mostly the same bar 1 exception, he is made to carry 100 minecarts in one hand, thus reducing his speed from 1.000 to 0.099, a Whale is then dropped from above.

Result :
Quote
The Dwarf, despite being burdened by the weight of 100 minecarts still manages to get out of the way with no difficulty.


#4 - Lying down on the job
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The Dwarf is placed as per usual, and the Whale likewise is dropped from above, as per usual.
The Dwarf is then taken over by the powers that be, and forced to lie prone and wait for the Whale to impact.

Result :
Quote
The Whale hits the Dwarf every time, causing minor bruising to him, a tad disappointing given the creature's size.


#5 - Trapped Dwarf
Quote
The Dwarf is placed, then has a wall built around him such that he cannot jump out of the way.
The Whale is then dropped as per usual.

Result :
Quote
Success! The Whale always hits, but sadly does barely any damage. A sad day indeed for !!SCIENCE!!


So after all the testing these are the results, methods #4 and #5 seem to be the only ways to get them to hit. Oddly enough, a Dwarf who cannot stand due to injury can still dodge though.

When the new version is a bit less crashy I'll try and make a Whale Chute on an Ocean biome for testing what height the Whale needs to drop in order to do any lasting damage to a trapped Dwarf.

EDIT: Fixed a bit of grammar.
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Quote from: Nasikabatrachus on July 11, 2014, 04:55:57 pm
If you've got dwarf problems, I feel bad for you, son.
I've got 99 whales because I killed Urist with one.

Alkhemia

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Re: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2014, 12:07:46 pm »
You could always edit the arena and make a nice deep hole to drop stuff down.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 04:21:34 am by Alkhemia »
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Neo_Spade

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Re: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2014, 12:46:43 pm »
Quote from: Alkhemia on July 12, 2014, 12:07:46 pm
You could always edit the arena and make a nice deep whole to drop stuff down.

I've tried that, but sadly even dropping something from the top of the arena to the very lowest level doesn't give me squashing speeds. Also, you can't edit the Arena layout ini file to have more than the default number of Z-Levels sadly. Thanks for the suggestion though!


Also, from all this testing I've discovered that the thing that falls takes more damage than the thing it lands on, so the Whale tends to explode into gore on contact with the Dwarf, while he gets away with light to heavy bruising.
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Quote from: Nasikabatrachus on July 11, 2014, 04:55:57 pm
If you've got dwarf problems, I feel bad for you, son.
I've got 99 whales because I killed Urist with one.

Guardian G.I.

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Re: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2014, 01:10:16 pm »
Quote from: Neo_Spade on July 12, 2014, 11:21:40 am
This is infrequent however, as the Whales are usually too busy ripping each other to pieces
Put them on the same side in the Arena's creature creation menu so they won't tear each other to shreds:

Apparently you spawned all those whales with their side being marked as "Independent", resulting in whales attacking each other.
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Quote from: LordSlowpoke on June 08, 2014, 03:27:09 pm
this means that a donation of 30 dollars to a developer that did not deliver would equal 4.769*10^-14 hitlers stolen from you
that's like half a femtohitler
and that is terrible
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Neo_Spade

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Re: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2014, 01:26:26 pm »
Quote from: Guardian G.I. on July 12, 2014, 01:10:16 pm
Quote from: Neo_Spade on July 12, 2014, 11:21:40 am
This is infrequent however, as the Whales are usually too busy ripping each other to pieces
Put them on the same side in the Arena's creature creation menu so they won't tear each other to shreds:

Apparently you spawned all those whales with their side being marked as "Independent", resulting in whales attacking each other.

Oh, I'm aware of that :) I've done it with independant on and off, but them ripping each other to pieces when they land is just hillarious. It only really changes the result of the staggering drop experiment, but even then all it would mean is that they'd never hit due to them not ever attempting to attack the Dwarf.
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Quote from: Nasikabatrachus on July 11, 2014, 04:55:57 pm
If you've got dwarf problems, I feel bad for you, son.
I've got 99 whales because I killed Urist with one.

Saram-61-97-kon

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Re: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2014, 02:10:40 pm »
It seems, that this is a bug. Maybe somebody should report it. A falling sperm whale should do a decent amount of damage. Have you tried this with a bronze colossus? Or try to edit the raws and make the whale out of slade. It would be interesting to know, which layer of the whale needs to be altered, so that he does a noticable damage.
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Wimopy

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Re: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2014, 02:22:50 pm »
Quote from: Saram-61-97-kon on July 12, 2014, 02:10:40 pm
It seems, that this is a bug. Maybe somebody should report it. A falling sperm whale should do a decent amount of damage. Have you tried this with a bronze colossus? Or try to edit the raws and make the whale out of slade. It would be interesting to know, which layer of the whale needs to be altered, so that he does a noticable damage.
Giant Slade Sperm Whale? Holy mother of all carp.
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Crashmaster

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Re: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2014, 02:24:14 pm »
This seems the opposite of previously when you could drop dwarves from great heights onto pastures of cats and the dwarf would be un-injured while the cats took all of the damage.
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Wastedlabor

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Re: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2014, 02:25:18 pm »
I think the whale just falls head first, gasps in surprise, and becomes a giant parachute.
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Quote from: shevtsov200 on July 19, 2014, 02:52:41 am
Quote from: Dunamisdeos on July 19, 2014, 01:07:54 am
He stole an onion. Off with his head.
I wonder, what would they do if someone killed their king.
Inevitable, who cares. Now an onion...

Wimopy

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Re: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2014, 02:46:08 pm »
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, the greatest monstrosity since the new trees!
SLADE WHALES!
These humongous creatures started their existence as mere sperm whales, but Armok had different plans. All their tissues' cells have been replaced with slade!
Spoiler: Code in case someone is lazy (click to show/hide)

Here is what I would like to call a GIANT SLADE WHALE AIRDROP;

Spoiler: Announcements after dropping (click to show/hide)

As you can see, the expected results were not obtained with a single whaledrop.
A 100x waledrop also had the same effect, only a single one hit at a time. The rest hit the others. Hehe...
Oh, and it seems that their undead versions are practically unkillable, the best attacks do is dent the slade or cut off non-vital limbs/bodyparts.

EDIT:
What have I done? Adamantine battleaxes only dent the slade. A platinum warhammer is more effective, but useless in the long run:
"You bash the Giant Slade Whale Corpse 27 in the head with your platinum war hammer, jamming the slade through the skull's bone, fracturing the skull's slade and chipping the brain's slade!"

Unfortunately, the game deletes the combat reports, but previously the automated combat led to the death of the GSW corpse. Blunt seems to have a possibility after a very, very long time of smashing, to land a killing blow. Edge on the other hand, is useless (well, without weight, I guess a platinum battleaxe might have enough weight to go through).

Dropping them on targets isn't all that reliable, but now that I changed their raws to have slade next to the standard tissue materials (and not replace them), they seem kill with a 75% chance. (No reports, unfortunately)
This is from +4 z levels. Still, I hope one day this makes it into one of my forts. I'm going to be embarking on terrifying areas next to the ocean now.

EDIT2: Ok, caught the report. The slade head got crushed. A platinum warhammer can, after a long while, pulp a slade monster's head. It might be because slade doesn't make up all  the tissue though. Oh, the giant ones have 2 ~ with guts spilled.

EDIT3: I'm... speechless. Without normal tissues, only slade, even after losing literally every bodypart except upper/lowerbody and head, with a push, the giant slade whale just killed my custom adventurer race. Slade just beat adamantine. (Though adamantine WAS using a platinum hammer)
The next adventurer-race (I called them adventurers), managed to kill it though. But still, giant slade whales are on the level of adamantine colossi. Ouch.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 03:38:27 pm by Wimopy »
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kingubu

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Re: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2014, 04:18:02 pm »
Someone should drop pairs of creatures from great heights and see if they'll battle on the way down, Gandalf style.
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Saram-61-97-kon

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Re: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2014, 06:02:03 pm »
Sounds impressing :D
Do I see it right, that the Impact of the slade whale does no damage? If so, this is definietly a bug. A giant slade whale should throw you in the deepest hell, if it lands upon you. I wont imagine which weight this monstrosity has ...
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Rendking

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Re: I can't kill a single Dwarf with 100 Whales
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2014, 06:38:09 pm »
Poor whales what did they ever do to you.  :'(
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