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[Rolepgeek]

Alright, lemon. Let me put it thisnway:

i don't care.

I find it more interesting if I am assisting the Danes, and I can take some cities for myself at the same time. I honestly don't care about technical win conditions, leaving aside that it's not that I expect them to disappear, it's that I'm not up to feeling like a paranoid whacko whilst playing a forum game. Losing is Fun, remember? Once everyone else is gone, I'll win in my head anyway, regardless of whether NQT decides to say 'oh and over the next 25 turns we backstab you, kill your family, rape your wife, etc. etc. you know the works'.

Internal victory conditions. They're a thing. Also not assuming people will backstab you at the ripest opportunity. Also a thing.

*feels profound disappointment in Lemon10's pessimism*

Also, the Danes actually managing to conquer England, and with the help of some of the English factions, and not immediately backstabbing them, is actually rather historically accurate.

[lemon10]

Heh. That's fine.
I wouldn't really look at someone it as backstabbing though. If you make an ally during the course of the game, its usually implicit that once everyone else is dead the alliance has run its natural course. This isn't always the case, many games allow team victories, and I suppose NQT might settle for one, but the Danes stated victory condition is I believe to take over the entirety of England.

You are right I suppose, there is a significant chance that NQT will allow mercia to survive.

[notquitethere]

To be clear, if there was just one player left and if the Danes had been in co-operation with them, I'd call the game finished (the mod beating a nonbelligerent player into submission isn't that fun).

Lemon seems confident that the Danes can be beaten given the current rules; I think I'm with Vanigo here, the razing has reached a virtuous cycle where I'll only get more powerful. I'm happy to stop getting razing income/spawning, any other opinions on this?

[lemon10]

To be clear, if there was just one player left and if the Danes had been in co-operation with them, I'd call the game finished (the mod beating a nonbelligerent player into submission isn't that fun).

Lemon seems confident that the Danes can be beaten given the current rules; I think I'm with Vanigo here, the razing has reached a virtuous cycle where I'll only get more powerful. I'm happy to stop getting razing income/spawning, any other opinions on this?

Yeah, I would be quite happy for them to lose the razing income. They can *probably* be beaten as things are, but the fact that Mercia is now completely on their side makes things much harder.

And I'm not confident, I'm optimistic. I could turn out to be wrong quite easily.
E: I'm pretty sure everyone but Mercia would be happy with the Danes taking a nerf at this point.

[Rolepgeek]

I'd be fine with it, actually. Makes the game more interesting, like I said.

I think there should be one final stack, though, somewhere not directly near any of the enemies, with the final King Of The Danes as it's leader.

[lemon10]

I'd be fine with it, actually. Makes the game more interesting, like I said.

I think there should be one final stack, though, somewhere not directly near any of the enemies, with the final King Of The Danes as it's leader.

I'm not a fan of a final stack because it puts an unfair burden on the player that it ends up attacking.

It does logically make sense to drop one of them on Wessex with the huge incursion on their shores, but that would be very unfair for them at this stage.

[Rolepgeek]

I was actually thinking it would drop on Mercia so that it would have to make the decision of who to attack from there and not be instantaneous.

That or Wales, since Wales has been having and will likely continue to have the easiest time of it.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

That or Wales, since Wales has been having and will likely continue to have the easiest time of it.

That's thanks to having been preparing for the invasion and being able to rapidly move my established forces to Machynnleth before the Danes got too far.  All things considered, I had been expecting their first force in the area to come after Haverfordwest rather than Aberaeron.

I'm curious of two things: Is anyone else demolishing the city's defenses on their way out and has anyone else not paid the Danes at least once?

Lemon seems confident that the Danes can be beaten given the current rules; I think I'm with Vanigo here, the razing has reached a virtuous cycle where I'll only get more powerful. I'm happy to stop getting razing income/spawning, any other opinions on this?

I say keep in the city looting but remove the non-city looting.


Oh, Wessex, Sane's Outpost is mine now.  I should note that if I can get some wood supplies, after I grab the outpost, I can drop a mounted crossbowmen from my 3 heartland cities and a crossbowman in Machynnleth each turn.  If I can get Aberaeron cleared, then I can move the forces there to aid Wessex and start the shuffle of new mounted crossbowmen north to aid Pictland.  Granted, I would need to be paid in some way.  Though, that is far off.  Need to clear out Aberaeron first.

[lemon10]

Throwing a bump out there to there to everyone but NQT. Despite the massive amount of postings in the thread over the past day none of you guys have actually put a turn in here.

And Zanz's idea on letting them keep non-city razing sounds like an acceptable idea.

[Kashyyk]

I have never paid the Danes, as you could probably have guessed. I have not been destroying fortifications though, only reducing pop-size.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

<playerturn player="Kashyyk">
  <tileorders>
    <tileorder type="tClaim" x="23" y="1"/>
  </tileorders>
  <cityorders>
    <cityorder type="rUnit" cityid="39">
      <unittype code="sword"/>
    </cityorder>
    <cityorder type="rUnit" cityid="31">
      <unittype code="sword"/>
    </cityorder>
    <cityorder type="bBld" cityid="8">
      <building code="mAcad"/>
    </cityorder>
    <cityorder type="addPop" cityid="17"/>
  </cityorders>
  <armyorgorders>
    <armyorgorder type="rnUnit" armyid="591" x="24" y="7">
      <targetunit unitid="781"/>
      <newname>Footmen</newname>
    </armyorgorder>
    <armyorgorder type="mUnit" armyid="591" x="24" y="7">
      <targetunit unitid="781"/>
      <secondarmy armyid="568"/>
    </armyorgorder>
    <armyorgorder type="dArmy" armyid="591" x="24" y="7"/>
    <armyorgorder type="rnUnit" armyid="590" x="22" y="15">
      <targetunit unitid="780"/>
      <newname>Phalanx</newname>
    </armyorgorder>
    <armyorgorder type="mUnit" armyid="590" x="22" y="15">
      <targetunit unitid="780"/>
      <secondarmy armyid="570"/>
    </armyorgorder>
    <armyorgorder type="dArmy" armyid="590" x="22" y="15"/>
    <armyorgorder type="nArmy" armyid="Kashyyk593" x="22" y="15"/>
    <armyorgorder type="dArmy" armyid="Kashyyk593" x="22" y="15"/>
  </armyorgorders>
  <armyorders>
    <armyorder type="mArmy" armyid="177" x="20" y="10">
      <step dx="-1" dy="-1"/>
    </armyorder>
  </armyorders>
</playerturn>

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

And Zanz's idea on letting them keep non-city razing sounds like an acceptable idea.

I meant they could keep getting gold from cities, but not regular land.

[lemon10]

Ehh... I'm not a fan of that actually. They already have plenty of incentive to take cities even once you remove city looting, whereas they have no natural incentive to spread out their units and torch all the villages.

[lemon10]

Another bump to Varee, Zanz, and Role.

[Varee]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

<playerturn player="Varee">
  <tileorders>
    <tileorder type="bImp" x="31" y="35">
      <improvement code="quarr"/>
    </tileorder>
  </tileorders>
  <cityorders>
    <cityorder type="rUnit" cityid="12">
      <unittype code="gboat"/>
    </cityorder>
    <cityorder type="rUnit" cityid="6">
      <unittype code="hbow3"/>
    </cityorder>
    <cityorder type="rUnit" cityid="0">
      <unittype code="hbow3"/>
    </cityorder>
    <cityorder type="bBld" cityid="30">
      <building code="found"/>
    </cityorder>
    <cityorder type="bBld" cityid="61">
      <building code="market"/>
    </cityorder>
    <cityorder type="addPop" cityid="57"/>
    <cityorder type="bBld" cityid="40">
      <building code="bowyer"/>
    </cityorder>
  </cityorders>
  <armyorgorders>
    <armyorgorder type="nArmy" armyid="Varee593" x="26" y="36"/>
    <armyorgorder type="rnArmy" armyid="Varee593" x="26" y="36">
      <newname>Crisis</newname>
    </armyorgorder>
    <armyorgorder type="mUnit" armyid="241" x="26" y="36">
      <targetunit unitid="210"/>
      <secondarmy armyid="Varee593"/>
    </armyorgorder>
    <armyorgorder type="mUnit" armyid="241" x="26" y="36">
      <targetunit unitid="260"/>
      <secondarmy armyid="Varee593"/>
    </armyorgorder>
    <armyorgorder type="mUnit" armyid="241" x="26" y="36">
      <targetunit unitid="223"/>
      <secondarmy armyid="241"/>
    </armyorgorder>
    <armyorgorder type="mUnit" armyid="241" x="26" y="36">
      <targetunit unitid="198"/>
      <secondarmy armyid="Varee593"/>
    </armyorgorder>
    <armyorgorder type="mUnit" armyid="241" x="26" y="36">
      <targetunit unitid="181"/>
      <secondarmy armyid="Varee593"/>
    </armyorgorder>
  </armyorgorders>
  <armyorders>
    <armyorder type="mArmy" armyid="Varee593" x="26" y="36">
      <step dx="1" dy="-1"/>
      <step dx="1" dy="0"/>
      <step dx="1" dy="1"/>
    </armyorder>
    <armyorder type="mArmy" armyid="241" x="26" y="36">
      <step dx="-1" dy="-1"/>
      <step dx="1" dy="-1"/>
      <step dx="1" dy="0"/>
      <step dx="1" dy="-1"/>
    </armyorder>
    <armyorder type="conq" armyid="282" x="24" y="31"/>
    <armyorder type="mArmy" armyid="479" x="24" y="30">
      <step dx="1" dy="1"/>
      <step dx="1" dy="0"/>
    </armyorder>
  </armyorders></playerturn>

So NQT is the rule about danes still stand? can I bribe them off for 50 so they stop attacking me for a turn? because that might be nice as they gain more than that for attacking?

[notquitethere]

Yep, that rule still stands: 50 now and next turn they won't attack a city or raze a tile.