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Author Topic: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - The Dark Age Has Ended  (Read 80730 times)

Rolepgeek

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Re: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - Turn 62
« Reply #810 on: December 17, 2014, 07:03:52 pm »
Right; he gives me 12 Horses, I let him take the tiles.
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notquitethere

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Re: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - Turn 63
« Reply #811 on: December 17, 2014, 07:35:10 pm »
Spoiler: 876 AD (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Battle Log (click to show/hide)

The High King of Ireland stares at the cowering people of Whitehaven. He realises that these folk are not his true enemies: no, it is the blackhearted raiders that he's been paying off these last few years. He sends word to all the kings of the land calling all to stand with him against the Danish scourge. Only Mercia, in league with Theorl Slizard, failed to answer the call. With the drying up of payments, new ships appeared off the west coast of Ireland.

In the south, the Stormhooves sailed into the open port of BungKarn, seizing back the city from Invar East as their compatriots took Nothingham. Sane's Outpost was lost to the Machina Malifica as the king rode hard to save Southern Trek from Yuni the Horned. Though Yuni was slain, he took with him a galleon and sent his horsemasters to harry Shorine, Centre Plain and the ancient citadel of Londinium.

And deep in the Midlands, the last tiny villages that called themselves Northumbrians were put to the sword and with them died the faint echoes of what once might have become and empire.

Turn 63: 877 AD

Player interface
Admin Interface

Income for Danes: 175 (Razing 25 (5 x 5); Sane's Outpost 75 (5 x 15); Nothingham 75 (5 x 15))

Spoiler: Dane xp allowance (click to show/hide)

Mercia - Rolepg
Wessex - Varee
Wales - Zanz
Ireland - Lemon10
Pictland - Kashyyk
Danes - NQT
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notquitethere

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Re: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - Turn 63
« Reply #812 on: December 17, 2014, 08:15:44 pm »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Vanigo

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Re: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - Turn 63
« Reply #813 on: December 17, 2014, 08:35:54 pm »
I hope you don't think Ireland can survive that. Because seriously, that's enough to take the entire island, no problem. Absolutely no chance of stopping it. Actually, at this point I think the Danes have hit critical mass and are guaranteed to destroy every player. Now that they're getting 100+ money a turn from looting, nothing can stop them. Nothing.

I think you need to stop giving them money from looting. They're invincible now. Wessex and Pictland are both broken and now provide nearly infinite money; nothing can stop the Danes from drowning the map in as many units as they damn well please. And hell, I don't think you even need to spawn any more units for them to roll over everyone.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 08:42:04 pm by Vanigo »
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lemon10

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Re: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - Turn 63
« Reply #814 on: December 17, 2014, 09:07:31 pm »
Suggested rule change: The Danes can only have access to units as long as:
A) One of the units they built on map is still alive.
B) They still possess a city that one of the surviving units of that type was built in.

This would make it possible (but still very hard) to take unit types away from the Danes, compared to the current way where it is impossible short of complete annihilation of all Danes. Obviously it would be too late to do this for the older unit types, but it should be fairly easy to tag the Knights and Galleons that have been created in England as having been created there.

Spoiler: Ireland turn 63 (click to show/hide)

Quote from: Rolepgeek on December 16, 2014, 09:35:00 pm
See, though, you make the mistake in assuming that I plan on ever fighting the Danes at all.

I mean, unless you can give me reason to abandon my allies, beyond you attacking me, when I am reaching the height of my power? I might stop paying them, once they get the capacity to support themselves, if I remain their allies, but only so that I can afford to raise some hordes of my own.

The bows of Mercia wait, men of Ireland.

So go ahead, give me a reason to fight them and maybe I will. Or maybe I will continue as I have been.
If things keep up it really might not matter if you want to fight the Danes or not. Once they are self-sustaining (which they will be if they take out Wessex or another player) they can throw massive stacks at each player pretty much every turn. Now yes, you will undoubtedly be able to stay allied with them until they have finished up a few more of the players, but the tipping point where they change from large threat to game ending threat is quite small, and can happen with as little as them destroying the army of a single player (and then going on to raze and take all of their land).

And once they *are* self sustaining they can throw sacrificial stacks of +20 units at their enemies without any trouble at the bare minimum, it will take them a while to attack you since you will still be supporting them financially, but once they do, you are pretty much doomed.
At the moment they still haven't reached game-ending threat yet, and probably won't, but I really don't want even a tiny chance of everyone losing a game that's been going on too long due to you supporting the Danes.
Quote from: Rolepgeek on December 16, 2014, 09:35:00 pm
Besides which, hypocrisy. You've been aiding them as much as I have, just not with gold!
Yes, I'm perfectly aware of the hypocrisy. However its important to note that I was supporting them out of the desire not to get invaded at that moment (and to be honest because it amused me). You have been supporting them as a direct means of making them stronger and screwing with everyone else (and to be fair, you have supported them quite a bit more then I have).
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 09:46:25 pm by lemon10 »
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Quote from: tahujdt on March 03, 2014, 07:37:57 pm
And with a mighty leap, the evil Conservative flies through the window, escaping our heroes once again!
Quote from: RedKing on August 27, 2014, 11:39:39 am
Because the solution to not being able to control your dakka is MOAR DAKKA.

That's it. We've finally crossed over and become the nation of Da Orky Boyz.

Rolepgeek

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Re: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - Turn 63
« Reply #815 on: December 17, 2014, 09:09:15 pm »
You forget one possibility, though, Lemon.

My victory condition has changed.
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Vanigo

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Re: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - Turn 63
« Reply #816 on: December 17, 2014, 09:15:44 pm »
Quote from: lemon10 on December 17, 2014, 09:07:31 pm
Suggested rule change: The Danes can only have access to units as long as:
A) One of the units they built on map is still alive.
B) They still possess a city that one of the surviving units of that type was built in.

This would make it possible (but still very hard) to take unit types away from the Danes, compared to the current way where it is impossible short of complete annihilation of all Danes. Obviously it would be too late to do this for the older unit types, but it should be fairly easy to tag the Knights and Galleons that have been created in England as having been created there.
It doesn't really matter. They've got enough industry now that you'd have to take every city with the appropriate buildings - and how the hell is anyone going to mount an offensive operation against the Danes anywhere, ever? They have infinite troops. They're already self-sustaining by virtue of looting everything. They're completely fucking invincible.
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Rolepgeek

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Re: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - Turn 63
« Reply #817 on: December 17, 2014, 09:16:51 pm »
Actually, I figure once they have a good foothold NQT will stop spawning outside troops for them.

He wants this game to be interesting too, after all, you know.
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lemon10

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Re: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - Turn 63
« Reply #818 on: December 17, 2014, 09:36:28 pm »
Quote from: Vanigo on December 17, 2014, 09:15:44 pm
Quote from: lemon10 on December 17, 2014, 09:07:31 pm
Suggested rule change: The Danes can only have access to units as long as:
A) One of the units they built on map is still alive.
B) They still possess a city that one of the surviving units of that type was built in.

This would make it possible (but still very hard) to take unit types away from the Danes, compared to the current way where it is impossible short of complete annihilation of all Danes. Obviously it would be too late to do this for the older unit types, but it should be fairly easy to tag the Knights and Galleons that have been created in England as having been created there.
It doesn't really matter. They've got enough industry now that you'd have to take every city with the appropriate buildings - and how the hell is anyone going to mount an offensive operation against the Danes anywhere, ever? They have infinite troops. They're already self-sustaining by virtue of looting everything. They're completely fucking invincible.
Mmm... I'm quite aware it might not matter at all in practice, but it at least allows us to take unit types from them theoretically.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on December 17, 2014, 09:09:15 pm
You forget one possibility, though, Lemon.

My victory condition has changed.
Yeah, I suppose it really does change things if you are playing with the goal of having the Danes wipe everyone else out.
Quote from: Vanigo on December 17, 2014, 08:35:54 pm
I hope you don't think Ireland can survive that. Because seriously, that's enough to take the entire island, no problem. Absolutely no chance of stopping it. Actually, at this point I think the Danes have hit critical mass and are guaranteed to destroy every player. Now that they're getting 100+ money a turn from looting, nothing can stop them. Nothing.

I think you need to stop giving them money from looting. They're invincible now. Wessex and Pictland are both broken and now provide nearly infinite money; nothing can stop the Danes from drowning the map in as many units as they damn well please. And hell, I don't think you even need to spawn any more units for them to roll over everyone.
I can survive this attack without even losing one of my cities. If they throw another stack at me right now I will be in pretty deep shit though.
And Wessex isn't broken at all. They are in a rather tough position, and will have a tough time dislodging the Bronze Army, but the Wessex FRU is capable of defending them (and wipe out all those calvary running around) while they build the rest of their army back up.

Honestly, I think we can manage as long as Role doesn't do his damndest to lose everyone the game.
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Quote from: tahujdt on March 03, 2014, 07:37:57 pm
And with a mighty leap, the evil Conservative flies through the window, escaping our heroes once again!
Quote from: RedKing on August 27, 2014, 11:39:39 am
Because the solution to not being able to control your dakka is MOAR DAKKA.

That's it. We've finally crossed over and become the nation of Da Orky Boyz.

notquitethere

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Re: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - Turn 63
« Reply #819 on: December 17, 2014, 09:40:28 pm »
If people are sufficiently scared of the Danes, I could now move to playing the game with the same restrictions as everyone else: no spawning, no razing income.
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Rolepgeek

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Re: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - Turn 63
« Reply #820 on: December 17, 2014, 09:43:32 pm »
*everyone but me

See, I'm not talking about the Danes killing everyone. I'm talking about the Danes, Mercia, and maybe Wales(Wales has it's shit together, and nobody likes besieging mountain fortresses) ruling over everyone else's corpses. Or something.
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Vanigo

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Re: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - Turn 63
« Reply #821 on: December 17, 2014, 09:48:38 pm »
Quote from: lemon10 on December 17, 2014, 09:36:28 pm
I can survive this attack without even losing one of my cities. If they throw another stack at me right now I will be in pretty deep shit though.
Yeah, I guess you can get your invasion force back just in time. And you might be able to stop a second fleet if you link your fleets up and they spawn in range (but why would they?).
Quote
And Wessex isn't broken at all. They are in a rather tough position, and will have a tough time dislodging the Bronze Army, but the Wessex FRU is capable of defending them (and wipe out all those calvary running around) while they build the rest of their army back up.
Unless the Bronze Horde links up with the Stormhooves, becoming more than the FRU can handle. Besides, they'll have to split up to stop those raiders from conquering more cities, further weakening them.

Quote from: Rolepgeek on December 17, 2014, 09:43:32 pm
*everyone but me

See, I'm not talking about the Danes killing everyone. I'm talking about the Danes, Mercia, and maybe Wales(Wales has it's shit together, and nobody likes besieging mountain fortresses) ruling over everyone else's corpses. Or something.
Why on Earth would the Danes stop with everyone but you? (I mean, besides the game ending well before that point.)
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Rolepgeek

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Re: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - Turn 63
« Reply #822 on: December 17, 2014, 09:50:50 pm »
Because it's part of our agreement and I trust NQT to not be a dick?
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Vanigo

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Re: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - Turn 63
« Reply #823 on: December 17, 2014, 09:58:01 pm »
Quote from: Rolepgeek on December 17, 2014, 09:50:50 pm
Because it's part of our agreement and I trust NQT to not be a dick?
Well... is it an agreement with NQT, or is it an agreement with the Danes as roleplayed by NQT, who are kind of dicks?
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lemon10

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Re: The Dark Age - A Vanigo Empire Game - Turn 63
« Reply #824 on: December 17, 2014, 10:00:21 pm »
Quote from: Rolepgeek on December 17, 2014, 09:43:32 pm
*everyone but me

See, I'm not talking about the Danes killing everyone. I'm talking about the Danes, Mercia, and maybe Wales(Wales has it's shit together, and nobody likes besieging mountain fortresses) ruling over everyone else's corpses. Or something.
That really isn't possible. I think Vanigo is wrong. The Danes haven't reached critical mass quite yet, although depending on how Wessex goes they might.
But once they do you won't be able to rule with them. They will have the capacity to support +200 (+250?) units from Irish+Wessexian+Pictish cities. Unless you think that you will be able to field more than 200 units between yourself and Wessex, within 10-20 turns, you are both doomed if they reach critical mass. They will wipe out everyone that isn't paying them, then they will wipe out everyone who was paying them. You will only be ruling on top of the mountain of corpses for a very short time, after which you will simply be the highest corpse on the mountain.
Quote from: Rolepgeek on December 17, 2014, 09:50:50 pm
Because it's part of our agreement and I trust NQT to not be a dick?
So you are assuming that they will kill everyone else in the game, and then will promptly disappear and give you the win? Because that's the only real way for you to not be dead at the end of this if they take even a single player out (with the possible exception of Pictland).
Quote from: Vanigo on December 17, 2014, 09:58:01 pm
Quote from: Rolepgeek on December 17, 2014, 09:50:50 pm
Because it's part of our agreement and I trust NQT to not be a dick?
Well... is it an agreement with NQT, or is it an agreement with the Danes as roleplayed by NQT, who are kind of dicks?
Mmm... The Danes have been rather trustworthy up to this point, but that is no reason to assume they won't stop accepting payment once payment serves no point other than stopping them from killing the last few players.
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Quote from: tahujdt on March 03, 2014, 07:37:57 pm
And with a mighty leap, the evil Conservative flies through the window, escaping our heroes once again!
Quote from: RedKing on August 27, 2014, 11:39:39 am
Because the solution to not being able to control your dakka is MOAR DAKKA.

That's it. We've finally crossed over and become the nation of Da Orky Boyz.
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