Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Wimopy]

I've checked and it seems hydras only attack one target (with multiple attacks though).
What I heard though is undead sperm whales, but the KoB has to be at least semi-frequent, no?

Trees are the King of Plants. A non-animal can't be a beast (in the form that means animal/monster)!
If we're looking for an animal, I am sure it will present itself soon enough.

For the sake of making at least a sort of prediction, I'm setting up fights in the arena. A Hydra has been fighting a Bronze Colossus for minutes. The bronze colossus can't hit, the hydra can't damage. Ah, the hydra finally died, the colossus needed a lucky hit, then it was set.

The zombie giant sperm whale tore the BC up in seconds. They're dangerous, but rare.
The dragon kills the giant sperm whale zombie with fire. Maybe fire enemies are the new killers? Fire spreads again. It kills trees too!
I'll run a few tests then update.

Update1:
Bronze Colossus has melted. I accidentally made an Undead bronze colossus, which killed the dragon easy, but I guess that should never happen.

The GCS, even in a group has trouble killing the dragon, as expected. It seems fire may be the key. Time to test it against the dwarves.
Update2:
The dwarves lost. When fighting on grass, the area went in blaze. The trees are mostly intact, some of them lost their upper leaves and branches, but their trunks are the same. Might be a bug?
They fought 4v1, with full steel armour, steel shield. They had swords. Proficient in relevant skills (dodge, shield, armour, sword, fighter, discipline). Morale was off (and I believe I might have dwarves modded for NOFEAR anyway, dunno why).
I had a second group with crossbows who actually were looking good, 132 pages of combat needed to kill them (no difference in skills, just that they had crossbows and fought on non-flammable terrain). They didn't use their crossbows though, they just kicked and punched. Idiots. I'll repeat that test, but I can see dragons being the newest ruler in town.
Then again, this IS a fully grown dragon as it's the arena.

Update3:
For some reason I can't recall, I had dwarves with natural legendary skills IN EVERYTHING.
And even with they used their ADAMANTINE weapons/armour, they lost most of the time (main exception was a guy with a shield and a stack of 100 bolts, he just went there and stabbed the bolts through the dragon's skull and brain).
So yeah. Rerunning tests with basic dwarves.

Test results:
1 dragon vs Grandmaster Hammerdwarves (5 dwarf squad, grand master: shield,armour,dodge,fighter,observer,tracker,discipline,hammer, full steel)
New dragon, new dwarves, equipment and skills same.
Dwarves defeated 3 dragons in a row, ended tests.
1 dragon vs grandmaster axedwarves (5 dwarf squad, same as above, exchange hammer for axe)
Dwarves won again.

Looking over results so far: If you fight on flammable ground, you will be burned. Otherwise, with sufficient skill and an advantage in numbers, you can win. Blunt seems to get a better time (easier to get the dragon unconscious). 1v1... well, it seems it's more up to luck. You'll want more fodder and more hits.

Time to see how morale affects the outcome (I removed all modifications to creature_standard now.)

Update4:
Groups of axedwarves like before, with morale on.
Morale affects the outcome greatly, thought Discipline mitigates it heavily.
With Grandmaster Discipline: The axedwarves win easy, though 1-2 run off occasionally, the rest keep the dragon down.
With no Discipline: The axedwarves ran away instantly. 2 died, the rest got away, the dragon is bathing in lava and not giving a damn about going back and eating the rest.
With Proficient Discipline: I saw a single one of them run away, then he didn't join back into the attack. I'm guessing another one was holding back, but the smoke covered it. The dwarves lost.


Enough for now. My tests weren't very comprehensive (didn't repeat them enough), but I'd say dragons are great contenders to the throne of the King of Beasts. The real player though? Fear. Better level your soldier's discipline, people! Doesn't matter what the enemy is if fear is paralyzing your men.
It was inevitable.

TL;DR: Dragons, Fire, Fear. Discipline is extremely important for military. These are the main contenders for KoB title in v0.40 besides trees.

[RealFear]

What is with all the 'It was inevitable.''s? I MUST KNOW THE STORY BEHIND THIS.

You've not really played DF2014, have you?

[misko27]

The first thing I did was open up arena and set two groups of ten humans fighting to play with it a bit. There were two conscious humans left after the fight when I made a man to try talking. First thing I see:


Human 6: It was inevitable.
Human 7: It was inevitable.


Anyway, give it time. Lots of beasties have yet to be encountered again.

[Gnomeknows]

I don't care if the OP specified "non-tree." Trees are such an overwhelmingly present menace that it would be unpatriotic to even consider any other alternatives for a superlative.

This.

[ShinQuickMan]

I hedge bets on badgers reclaiming the throne. From what I heard, berserk creatures aren't affected by the "weeping cowards syndrome" plaguing the game now.

[4maskwolf]

I hedge bets on badgers reclaiming the throne. From what I heard, berserk creatures aren't affected by the "weeping cowards syndrome" plaguing the game now.

Actually, badgers weren't a problem for me when I encountered them.  They ran right into my untrained dogs and the dogs tore them to shreds (it was six dogs against two badgers).

[Wimopy]

I hedge bets on badgers reclaiming the throne. From what I heard, berserk creatures aren't affected by the "weeping cowards syndrome" plaguing the game now.

Actually, badgers weren't a problem for me when I encountered them.  They ran right into my untrained dogs and the dogs tore them to shreds (it was six dogs against two badgers).

But what about Giand Badgers? Those buggers will probably scare the crap out of dogs.
Tested in arena: 1 giant badger scared 5 dogs, but got attacked from behind by the one it didn't scare. 2 giant badgers didn't even get attacked by the 6 dogs I made, they just ran.

So yeah, don't underestimate fear. The larger the target, the more fear.

[FallenAngel]

-science snip-

Ah, but trees ARE animals. I have justification, too:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140292.msg5461013#msg5461013
That's my post on page two describing exactly how they prey on creatures, despite being immobile.
Every bit of their conscious actions happen within the tree, which includes the roots and the leaves.
Of course, trees lose their leaves during winter. Despite being a great dwarven biologist, not even I can find how they blind creatures without any leaves - my best guess is that the bark itself contains some eyes that only activate during the winter.

[Wimopy]

-science snip-

Ah, but trees ARE animals. I have justification, too:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140292.msg5461013#msg5461013
That's my post on page two describing exactly how they prey on creatures, despite being immobile.
Every bit of their conscious actions happen within the tree, which includes the roots and the leaves.
Of course, trees lose their leaves during winter. Despite being a great dwarven biologist, not even I can find how they blind creatures without any leaves - my best guess is that the bark itself contains some eyes that only activate during the winter.

Ah yes, I've read that. Still, we cannot leave out the other contenders, can we?
Now, I wonder who would win in fort mode, a dragon or a tree?
Unfortunately, arena tests never led to birds crashing into trees, no matter how I tried. Dragonfire worked wonders at turning treetops into ashes, but the dragon (especially with its immense size and weight) might crash into trees with horrendous force. In that case, the dragon might lose the fight! (Except that dragons don't seem to fly too much and can't get scared into doing so, they have NOFEAR. They also have NOEXERT so they won't drop from tiredness. Maybe they might fall asleep?)
Also, with temp set to dragonfire, eventually you get messages about "something collapsed on the surface", meaning the tree either turns to ash or its roots do and it falls through the ground! Very cool.

[Alev]

-science snip-

Ah, but trees ARE animals. I have justification, too:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140292.msg5461013#msg5461013
That's my post on page two describing exactly how they prey on creatures, despite being immobile.
Every bit of their conscious actions happen within the tree, which includes the roots and the leaves.
Of course, trees lose their leaves during winter. Despite being a great dwarven biologist, not even I can find how they blind creatures without any leaves - my best guess is that the bark itself contains some eyes that only activate during the winter.

Ah yes, I've read that. Still, we cannot leave out the other contenders, can we?
Now, I wonder who would win in fort mode, a dragon or a tree?
Unfortunately, arena tests never led to birds crashing into trees, no matter how I tried. Dragonfire worked wonders at turning treetops into ashes, but the dragon (especially with its immense size and weight) might crash into trees with horrendous force. In that case, the dragon might lose the fight! (Except that dragons don't seem to fly too much and can't get scared into doing so, they have NOFEAR. They also have NOEXERT so they won't drop from tiredness. Maybe they might fall asleep?)
Also, with temp set to dragonfire, eventually you get messages about "something collapsed on the surface", meaning the tree either turns to ash or its roots do and it falls through the ground! Very cool.

At least in DF2012, dragons didn't have wings.

[Wimopy]

At least in DF2012, dragons didn't have wings.

Ah. Yes. My mistake. Then they're likely immune to whatever affects the birds. I'm quite sure that's a long-running conspiracy/evolution thing.
This seems dangerous.

By the way, thinking of it, trees are killing birds and cutting them can get dangerous. Anyone reminded of The Happening?

[FallenAngel]

-science snip-

Ah, but trees ARE animals. I have justification, too:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140292.msg5461013#msg5461013
That's my post on page two describing exactly how they prey on creatures, despite being immobile.
Every bit of their conscious actions happen within the tree, which includes the roots and the leaves.
Of course, trees lose their leaves during winter. Despite being a great dwarven biologist, not even I can find how they blind creatures without any leaves - my best guess is that the bark itself contains some eyes that only activate during the winter.

Ah yes, I've read that. Still, we cannot leave out the other contenders, can we?
Now, I wonder who would win in fort mode, a dragon or a tree?
Unfortunately, arena tests never led to birds crashing into trees, no matter how I tried. Dragonfire worked wonders at turning treetops into ashes, but the dragon (especially with its immense size and weight) might crash into trees with horrendous force. In that case, the dragon might lose the fight! (Except that dragons don't seem to fly too much and can't get scared into doing so, they have NOFEAR. They also have NOEXERT so they won't drop from tiredness. Maybe they might fall asleep?)
Also, with temp set to dragonfire, eventually you get messages about "something collapsed on the surface", meaning the tree either turns to ash or its roots do and it falls through the ground! Very cool.

In most cases, the doomanimal/king of beasts is something unexpected. You'd expect a dragon, being a megabeast and a fire-breathing lizard, to be dangerous.
You might expect an elephant to be dangerous, although they aren't normally.
Carp? Heavily unlikely.
Giant sponges? Biologically impossible.
TREES? Just as impossible as giant sponges, but more common.

[Spehss _]

At least in DF2012, dragons didn't have wings.

They still don't have wings though. Can't fly either, no [FLIER] tag.

[Wimopy]

Well, it's not the dragon itself, it's the fire and fear that they bring, especially if the ground is lit on fire (quite spectacular).
But I'm guessing we'll laugh ourselves dead when the real KoB turns out to be a demon rat that scares dwarves to death/uselessness.

Trees are nice candidates, but are they agressively attacking dwarves? Sure, the birds are dying, and the dwarves are panicking, but no. They might flatten a dwarf or two (I still have no idea what happened to my woodcutter, but I believe he was atomsmashed by a tree), but do they attack when left alone? No, they don't!
The King of Beasts has always been agressive, at least when you got close enough. As it stands, if you send out people to gather plants, the trees won't brutally murder them. Plus, all it takes to kill them is an axe. Which can even be made of wood. Carp, Giant Sponges, Elephants were all notorious for being almost impossible to kill (Giant Sponges took that to the max). I don't think a tree fits that category unless it has a poisonous aura or something. Or a deadly fruit... which can be modded, but we need a vanilla danger!

[FallenAngel]

I think trees are as close as we have right now.
We don't have anything that inexplicably takes an entire army to take down one, or requires an abuse of physics to defeat.
Dragons, hydras, rocs, bronze colossi, all of those are megabeasts for a reason.
They're hard as heck to fight, which is made fair due to the fact that you either have to visit them (in adventure mode) or you'll typically have a tough enough army to face them when they do visit (in fort mode).
Trees?
Trees are essentially omnipresent. Anywhere you can embark, there's going to be at least one tree on the map (not on the surface, mind you, but there's bound to be one in the caverns somewhere). Sure, they don't actively attack dwarves, but they rely on the stupidity of dwarves and fall damage, and I'm sure they'll acquire as many dwarf kills over time that elephants, carp, and giant sponges amassed.