Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 31

Author Topic: Habit RPG  (Read 38789 times)

Gunner-Chan

  • Bay Watcher
  • << IT'S TIME >>
    • View Profile
Re: Habit RPG
« Reply #60 on: July 17, 2014, 03:22:09 am »

I'm going to outright admit I think this thing is stupid.

But that it's also helping me I think. It's stupid but it's actually fairly useful at keeping me motivated to do things, even if it's a stupid concept. Though I suppose if it works it's not stupid.

... I still think it's silly though. Maybe I'm just being a grump.
Logged
Diamonds are combustable, because they are made of Carbon.

K41N

  • Bay Watcher
  • only posts when bored
    • View Profile
Re: Habit RPG
« Reply #61 on: July 17, 2014, 03:28:20 am »

Just joined. My username is K41N. I like the idea :-)

I will try to create the habit of reading, learning spanish and exercising every day. Hope this App will help with that.
Logged

Tiruin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Life is too short for worries
    • View Profile
Re: Habit RPG
« Reply #62 on: July 17, 2014, 03:35:18 am »

Guess its the grump more than anything else. :p

But it is stupid in a way of mind where 'I do stuff only for rewards'...The rewards must not be the ends to the action, though, but in the initial cases, it's alright. Due to the fact that its all in a person's choice--the person doing it all.


Basic psych and stuff like that, its a nifty tracking tool where there is essentially no competition you need to compete with...but yourself.
...On another wholly different note, I'm staring at you, Pavlov. (which is just a tiny joke on my part here :p)

It is silly though. In a nice way.

Edit: Reminds me of a story I once heard wherein an [Authority figure ie Boss] called a [meeting] for the people and noted [something something Source of all your Problems] (in my recollection, its a Funeral of 'The person who [kept you down]').
At that (funeral?), the people gathered around and wondered who was this person that [kept them down (in the sense of lacking productivity)] and the only thing in the coffin was a mirror facing the viewer directly.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 03:40:44 am by Tiruin »
Logged

Jopax

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cat on a hat
    • View Profile
Re: Habit RPG
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2014, 03:35:31 am »

I agree in part. Mostly because this thing is completely self-enforced, and if you don't particularly care for the little dude and what have you you won't have much reason to follow up on these things.

What I do find useful is the tracking and visual progression of things that are on schedule. That helps me immensely to plan and do these things. Especially if it's something big and daunting, cutting it up and filling those checkboxes one by one is very satisfying.

*mmmmm checkboxes*
Logged
"my batteries are low and it's getting dark"
AS - IG

Sappho

  • Bay Watcher
  • AKA Aira; Legendary Female Gamer
    • View Profile
    • Aira Plays Games
Re: Habit RPG
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2014, 03:45:49 am »

It is useful as far as people consider it useful. It uses the same skinner box techniques that game developers use to get you hooked on video games, and instead uses them to get you motivated to do real-life good things. That little happy feeling you get when you click the checkbox and the bars fill up a little and the little boxes pop up saying you've got points and gold and stuff, that provides motivation and an instant feeling of reward. Your actions already have rewards in and of themselves. When you drink water instead of soda, you make yourself healthier. But that's a long-term result and our brains aren't good at connecting the results and the actions that lead up to them, causing us to make bad decisions or rationalize bad habits. HabitRPG just gives you that tiny instant gratification, which for most people is enough to give you that extra push to do what you should be doing.

It may be helpful for me to share the little blog post that motivated me to give this game a proper try. I had already seen the site and dismissed it as "stupid," but this post changed my mind, and I'm glad it did, because it's seriously working.

Tiruin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Life is too short for worries
    • View Profile
Re: Habit RPG
« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2014, 03:57:01 am »

Skinner box techniques? (What's a skinner box? :x)

Also
Quote from: That spoiler
(Your inner self-hater will pipe up at this point and say something like “this is stupid, who needs to be rewarded just for[...] getting up in the morning?” People for whom this takes a lot of effort, that’s who.  This is a motivation strategy, we’re not striving for cool points here, we’re trying to stay afloat!  When you’re living with depression, if you find something that works, that’s what you do.  This works for me, so I’m sharing it in the hopes that it will work for someone else.) 
Emphasis on the orange ._.
That's something to mention--the game is no competition (yeah, there are parties, quests and other stuffs but those are more sideline-value than a competition game). The game is a competition with the self. From what I see, its also a 'test of honesty', to use the idea, given that the only rewards and the actions pertaining to it have no judge but you, yourself. There are also times wherein some voice or thought in your head tells you you can't do [productive action].

You can, and nothing is stopping you from. (and that one post in the spoiler illustrates it nicely, though through the use of the game)

Also its a handy tracker which, like what I guess is this skinner box thing, acts like an organizer. Given the technology of this age being more commonly available, something such as this would be said to be a great benefit.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 04:11:38 am by Tiruin »
Logged

Gunner-Chan

  • Bay Watcher
  • << IT'S TIME >>
    • View Profile
Re: Habit RPG
« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2014, 03:59:54 am »

The idea behind a skinner box is that if you do the right repetitive activity you get instantly rewarded, and if you do the wrong one you're instantly punished.

I don't think you need to self hate to say it's stupid though. I mostly think it's dumb dressing things up and gamifying them. Though it does seem to work, maybe in my case at least because I've found I have issues thinking out initial steps and focus too much on the end goal.
Logged
Diamonds are combustable, because they are made of Carbon.

Il Palazzo

  • Bay Watcher
  • And lo, the Dude did abide. And it was good.
    • View Profile
Re: Habit RPG
« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2014, 04:43:04 am »

Oh, it's tempting to call this whole thing transparently silly, a cheap trick, and generally below you.

But. Anyone who has ever spent hours upon end playing roguelikes, or any other kind of "Progress-Quest"-type of games, can't deny being receptive to the arbitrary points and rewards that games shower you with. If you weren't you wouldn't be playing those.
Furthermore, the more you play these games, the more your brain gets trained in expecting this vacuous sort of instant gratification.

So it's either letting your misplaced pride dismiss the method as fit only for the lesser people, while simultaineously contemplating what other game to play next for your daily fix of accomplishment, or embracing it as a tool finely tailored to your brain's needs.
Logged

Sappho

  • Bay Watcher
  • AKA Aira; Legendary Female Gamer
    • View Profile
    • Aira Plays Games
Re: Habit RPG
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2014, 04:58:56 am »

The idea behind a skinner box is that if you do the right repetitive activity you get instantly rewarded, and if you do the wrong one you're instantly punished.

You're thinking of Pavlov. Skinner's techniques were more complex. Pavlov could get someone to respond to a stimulus by rewarding or punishing it, but Skinner could get someone to actively make a decision to act, of their own (apparent) free will, by messing with how often the rewards came.

Here's a good (and amusing) analysis of how Skinner techniques and other psychological tricks are used to get people hooked on video games: http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

EDIT: Basically, you get instant rewards for every little thing, but you only get the big reward (the level-up) after you collect enough small rewards. The first one comes quickly, then they take longer and longer to achieve. At the same time, there are random item drops. You need one more food item to make your dragon pet grow into a mount, so you're motivated to keep grinding until you get it. It's random how often they drop, so every time could be the one you need. It's frighteningly effective, but in this case, it's being used for good.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 05:00:46 am by Sappho »
Logged

hops

  • Bay Watcher
  • Secretary of Antifa
    • View Profile
Re: Habit RPG
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2014, 05:04:16 am »

PTW and probably checking it out later
Logged
she/her. (Pronouns vary over time.) The artist formerly known as Objective/Cinder.

One True Polycule with flame99 <3

Avatar by makowka

Sappho

  • Bay Watcher
  • AKA Aira; Legendary Female Gamer
    • View Profile
    • Aira Plays Games
Re: Habit RPG
« Reply #70 on: July 17, 2014, 05:05:56 am »

Also, I have to ask, why would you say that gamifying something is inherently stupid? Games are stupid? Why? If it works, then what about it being a game makes it stupid? I'm genuinely interested. Is it just a knee-jerk reaction that games can't be something serious or useful? (I use games to motivate my students, even giving them XP for completed assignments, and they are the most motivated and eager students in the school.) Or is there a genuine reason why you think it's not good? You say it's effective, so "stupid" obviously doesn't mean "it doesn't work." So what do you mean by "stupid"?

Here's a quote from that article that I think is very relevant regarding how our brains deal with digital rewards:
Quote
Your brain treats items and goods in the video game world as if they are real. Because they are.

People scoff at this idea all the time ("You spent all that time working for a sword that doesn't even exist?") and those people are stupid. If it takes time, effort and skill to obtain an item, that item has value, whether it's made of diamonds, binary code or beef jerky.

There's nothing crazy about it. After all, people pay thousands of dollars for diamonds, even though diamonds do nothing but look pretty. A video game suit of armor looks pretty and protects you from video game orcs. In both cases you're paying for an idea.

Tiruin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Life is too short for worries
    • View Profile
Re: Habit RPG
« Reply #71 on: July 17, 2014, 05:49:30 am »

Oh, it's tempting to call this whole thing transparently silly, a cheap trick, and generally below you.

But. Anyone who has ever spent hours upon end playing roguelikes, or any other kind of "Progress-Quest"-type of games, can't deny being receptive to the arbitrary points and rewards that games shower you with. If you weren't you wouldn't be playing those.
Furthermore, the more you play these games, the more your brain gets trained in expecting this vacuous sort of instant gratification.

So it's either letting your misplaced pride dismiss the method as fit only for the lesser people, while simultaineously contemplating what other game to play next for your daily fix of accomplishment, or embracing it as a tool finely tailored to your brain's needs.
Err, all of this assumes the notion that rewards are the ends to a means. :/
As in, that specific mindset is the mention in this post (is what I see).
...Which is only one in the thousands of reasons people play this game. [Also I'm a Roguelike pro, and I can easily {and vehemently? :P} deny that argument you place there about 'If you were/weren't, then you...' because it does not, as a whole, apply to me.]
Nor do I think that could apply to the majority of roguelike players...
And I've played a ton of roguelikes. Yea, I'm 'trained' in seeing those ideas, but I'm not trained in 'expecting it for me' (as in, doing such just because [reward \o/]). I understand it, but I don't act because of it.
You see this as an act of pride, wherein I could say pride is like a... label on a superficial degree. Pride is only a minor concept (and in most cases with people and this game--is trivially nonexistent) in the holistic nature of these things and the reasons or motives of people playing it, just as much as a person's value towards an entity equals whatever adjective is out there.

It's far less of 'pride' or 'selfishness' or whatever idea there but more of interest and value. Personal value, even.
(Also it would do you well to define your words :v A lot of words there come from assumptions...and their meaning, deeper so.)
Or were you replying to someone o-o
Because it seems weirdly worded if you weren't...but its still unclear D:

Of note: You have a choice whether to assign rewards or not. :P As far as I see the basic system working, everything has a choice. Everything else to make it fancy (ie RPG stuffs) has costs and other things tied into the idea. But its more of auxiliary work from there on out.

Edit: Back to game terms.

...I find that you can't directly bookmark it? xD Or maybe its me (or my net)? I'm seeing all white from here on out.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 06:20:10 am by Tiruin »
Logged

Il Palazzo

  • Bay Watcher
  • And lo, the Dude did abide. And it was good.
    • View Profile
Re: Habit RPG
« Reply #72 on: July 17, 2014, 06:21:39 am »

...Which is only one in the thousands of reasons people play this game. [Also I'm a Roguelike pro, and I can easily {and vehemently? :P} deny that argument you place there about 'If you were/weren't, then you...' because it does not, as a whole, apply to me.]
And I've played a ton of roguelikes. Yea, I'm 'trained' in seeing those ideas, but I'm not trained in 'expecting' it for me (as in, doing such just because [reward \o/]). I understand it, but I don't act because of it.
What is it then that makes you play roguelikes if not the promise of easily-gained sense of accomplishment? I'm honestly asking, as these games always appeared to me the most bare-bones examples of such instant gratification. Is it not finding loot, leveling up, gaining skills, going another level deeper, defeating a boss?
Logged

Tiruin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Life is too short for worries
    • View Profile
Re: Habit RPG
« Reply #73 on: July 17, 2014, 06:35:32 am »

Not the accomplishment, but more on the challenge.
Err, how do I explain the allure of discovery and testing your mind in set and unset mechanics ._.
Something like that. Less (or not at all) of the accomplishment thingy.
Sure, hot nice lewt and all. But what do you do with the loot o-o
There's also the story. Dear goodness. Roguelikes with stories (which do exist) are a great boon.
On the question..err, sure? You could say its instant gratification--never clicked that way for me though, but more on 'these things are tools'.
Logged

Orange Wizard

  • Bay Watcher
  • mou ii yo
    • View Profile
    • S M U G
Re: Habit RPG
« Reply #74 on: July 17, 2014, 06:43:07 am »

What makes people play roguelikes is not instant gratification. It's fighting for the smallest of rewards, dying when you aim for something bigger, and trying again. You get beat down, but I will persevere, game! I'm going to get that rusty sword! And neither high water nor the fires of Hell itself will stop me.
You try and fail and try again, until you get what you wanted, clinging to life by a hair, soaked in both your blood and the blood of your foes.
It's not instant reward that makes it sweet, it's the effort you put in to achieve it. Roguelikes do not give an easily-gained sense of accomplishment, because that accomplishment was really sodding hard to get, and I was fighting tooth and nail every step of the way.

I was also ninja'd by Tiriun. Hi, Tiriun. Don't mind me.
Logged
Please don't shitpost, it lowers the quality of discourse
Hard science is like a sword, and soft science is like fear. You can use both to equally powerful results, but even if your opponent disbelieve your stabs, they will still die.
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 31