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[Sergarr]

You know, maybe the problem with modern DF is that it has outgrown it's business model. Maybe Toady should pull a Notch, or a Tom Francis and just start selling this thing. Make a couple million dollars, hire two or three bug squashing employees, and then travel the world for six months.

Then when he returns his minions have fixed the bugs, separated the UI code from the game logic and given him a nice clean slate on which to procceed. DF is my favorite game ever, ever, and I've been playing games since pong. Heck yeah I'd buy it. So what if it isn't complete? Minecraft still isn't complete.

I hope this is sarcarm/not serious.

[Footkerchief]

You know, maybe the problem with modern DF is that it has outgrown it's business model. Maybe Toady should pull a Notch, or a Tom Francis and just start selling this thing. Make a couple million dollars, hire two or three bug squashing employees, and then travel the world for six months.

Then when he returns his minions have fixed the bugs, separated the UI code from the game logic and given him a nice clean slate on which to procceed. DF is my favorite game ever, ever, and I've been playing games since pong. Heck yeah I'd buy it. So what if it isn't complete? Minecraft still isn't complete.

It seems like you're conflating "business model" with "size of dev team," but regardless:

First, I don't want to work with other people.

[GavJ]

Yes I see that quote. It is assuming some need to have everything be simultaneous that I am just not agreeing with.

You need to have SOME sort of interface released with each release already working. But that could simply be Toady maintaining his simple ASCII default GUI and making sure that one works (same effort as currently). Other ones would break, yes, but only for a week or so, tops, if he had changelogs ahead of time. So what?

[Footkerchief]

Yes I see that quote. It is assuming some need to have everything be simultaneous that I am just not agreeing with.

You need to have SOME sort of interface released with each release already working. But that could simply be Toady maintaining his simple ASCII default GUI and making sure that one works (same effort as currently). Other ones would break, yes, but only for a week or so, tops, if he had changelogs ahead of time. So what?

So Toady has to deal with a lot of unpleasant pressure, when the 90% of players that use the superior third-party interface are clamoring for him to hurry up and help the team get their interface working.  Toady doesn't want to work with other people, or deal with that kind of pressure.  I'm just paraphrasing the quote here.

[Oblique]

Yes I see that quote. It is assuming some need to have everything be simultaneous that I am just not agreeing with.

Well no. That quote has nothing whatsoever to do with programming, and absolutely everything to do with personality. It's not Toady saying collaborating with others would be inefficient, confusing or anything else like that, it's simply him saying he wants to work on his project alone.

Sorry, I can't think of a better way of putting it, really. He's an introverted guy, he wants to build the game for, and by, himself.

[GavJ]

What pressure is there if he clearly states ahead of time that he's not going to help them, prior to anybody making GUIs in the first place? Or clearly outlining the limits to which he will sort of help them, such as by making graphics-relevant changelogs prior to releases (is a form of help that does not require collaboration).

"OMIGOD hurry up and help them!"
"There's nothing to hurry, because I don't help with code that isn't mine, for sake of my sanity. This was made clear from before the GUI was made. A default GUI is available for anybody wishing to experience zero downtime after a release [link]."

People who legitimately want to continue whining and actually resenting Toady even after such an explanation are morons and they're going to give him a heart attack if he tries to cater to them no matter what business model he chooses, IMO *shrug*

[SmileyMan]

Yes I see that quote.

'see' < 'read' < 'comprehend' < 'understand'

Go back to it and read the bit down the bottom. He's made a massive decision to devote his life to programming a single game for the sake of his happiness, and working with other people, even to the point of providing an API, would reduce that happiness. You might not agree, you might find it hard to understand, but ultimately that's for you to deal with, not him.

Personally, I doubt that anyone who hasn't made the personal paradigm shift that Toady has can really deeply understand his rationale.

[cephalo]

It seems like you're conflating "business model" with "size of dev team," but regardless:

First, I don't want to work with other people.

Oh sure, I've seen that quote. I felt the same way about broccoli when I was a kid. You know what? Maybe it's time to man up? He has an extraordinary purpose and a well defined life's mission. Someday the prince must put the toy soldiers away and become king.

[Henny]

It seems like you're conflating "business model" with "size of dev team," but regardless:

First, I don't want to work with other people.

Oh sure, I've seen that quote. I felt the same way about broccoli when I was a kid. You know what? Maybe it's time to man up? He has an extraordinary purpose and a well defined life's mission. Someday the prince must put the toy soldiers away and become king.

...

This is probably some really good satire going on.

[Putnam]

It seems like you're conflating "business model" with "size of dev team," but regardless:

First, I don't want to work with other people.

Oh sure, I've seen that quote. I felt the same way about broccoli when I was a kid. You know what? Maybe it's time to man up? He has an extraordinary purpose and a well defined life's mission. Someday the prince must put the toy soldiers away and become king.

You're not a programmer.

[cephalo]

You're not a programmer.

Oh really? I've been known to write some code occasionally. Check sig.

[Severedicks]

You're not a programmer.

I'm afraid he is, look at his signature. He even finishes his programs.

[GavJ]

To clarify, there are two kinds of "pressure"

Pressure to fulfill obligations you have promised.
This is something that an honorable man must relent to as best he can, and is IMO a much more potent form of stress than the other kind. However, it can be avoided by simply not promising things.

Pressure from people asking for stuff that you never promised.
1) This is always going to be the case for a publicly available game. This thread itself is this kind of pressure. Nothing about that would be "new" with a GUI API. The only way to avoid it entirely would be to get a job at Starbucks and use that to fund writing the game in his basement and never talk to any players until he's finished.
2) If you disagree with the requests being made, you can simply ignore this pressure without feeling bad about yourself. And no rational person can really fault you for it. So it is inherently lower (although not zero) stress.



Making an API and making it clear that you do not intend to help update 3rd party apps after releases, does not create any more of the first kind of pressure, and mostly just shifts the second kind of pressure into a different set of requests than there were before. People stop complaining about lack of GUI and start complaining about how the GUI breaks. All sort of washes out the same. But at the end of the day, you still have a much better gaming experience overall.

[Redzephyr01]

It seems like you're conflating "business model" with "size of dev team," but regardless:

First, I don't want to work with other people.

Oh sure, I've seen that quote. I felt the same way about broccoli when I was a kid. You know what? Maybe it's time to man up? He has an extraordinary purpose and a well defined life's mission. Someday the prince must put the toy soldiers away and become king.

Are you serious? Please tell me you're joking.

[sal880612m]

The irony of that topic title and that post struck me as humorous.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140188.msg5454920#msg5454920