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[GavJ]

With the multitile trees, the number of logs is game breaking for anybody wanting any sort of a challenge. And as far as I can tell, it's not actually possible to make trees smaller than 3 logs now, even with max_height:1, max_diameter:1. And even then, they're also just super ugly as short stubby things without any branches etc.

I think an elegant solution to make everybody happy would be to add a probability parameter to the TREE: tag. So that we can all have the pretty trees, but not necessarily easy game mode.

Instead of [TREE:[material]:[sub-material]] do [TREE:[probability per log]:[material token]:[sub-material token]]. That way, people wanting a challenge can just set them to 5% or whatever, people wanting avalanches of logs can set them at 100%.



Actually, while you're at it, if you think this is a good idea, it would also be nice to add options to make them drop things other than logs, but I won't push my luck. Putting it as a separate suggestion below:
[TREE:[probability per log]:[item token]:[sub-item token]:[material token]:[sub-material token]]
Basically making it the same or almost the same as a custom reaction product raw.

[Sergarr]

Other solution: increase the log requirements in reactions proportionally.

[GavJ]

Other solution: increase the log requirements in reactions proportionally.

1) You can't, because carpenters, etc. and their reactions aren't in the raws.

2) Even if you could, that's not an identical solution. Cutting 50 logs for a tree and then having to haul 50 logs to the carpenter to make one bed would take like 4 months. It's not the same as cutting one log and making a bed out of one log, which takes a day or two.

[Sergarr]

Other solution: increase the log requirements in reactions proportionally.

1) You can't, because carpenters, etc. and their reactions aren't in the raws.

2) Even if you could, that's not an identical solution. Cutting 50 logs for a tree and then having to haul 50 logs to the carpenter to make one bed would take like 4 months. It's not the same as cutting one log and making a bed out of one log, which takes a day or two.

Then maybe make it so only the main trunk gives logs?

[GavJ]

Other solution: increase the log requirements in reactions proportionally.

1) You can't, because carpenters, etc. and their reactions aren't in the raws.

2) Even if you could, that's not an identical solution. Cutting 50 logs for a tree and then having to haul 50 logs to the carpenter to make one bed would take like 4 months. It's not the same as cutting one log and making a bed out of one log, which takes a day or two.

Then maybe make it so only the main trunk gives logs?

...which doesn't make everybody happy. If you're going to go in and change the way it works anyway, why would you choose a method that takes just as much effort to code (or more so, probably, since you'd have to define the "main trunk" programatically), and yet compromises in a way that only satisfies a few people? When you could alternatively choose a method that lets everybody have maximum fun for different types of games (casual, challenge, realistic, fantasy, pretending to be elves, blah blah)

[suburbanplankton]

I've seen some discussion on other threads concerning the amount of time it takes for the new multitile trees to regrow.  As far as I can tell, nobody has an answer to the question as yet; if trees regrow in a year or so, then this is a problem from a balance perspective, but if it takes 10 years for new trees to appear then I don't think it's game-breaking.  Hopefully the way it works is the latter...that way, you wind up with a lot more wood up front, but if you clearcut your map then you have no more logs  for a long, long time.  And over a number of years, the total number of logs you can harvest would probably turn out roughly the same as in earlier versions.

Time for some !SCIENCE!

[GavJ]

Why does it make any difference how long trees take to regrow?

I've never made a fort the entire time I've played DF that used more than 1,000 logs, and in this version, you can get that many by cutting down the trees in less than a single embark tile.  So it's never going to matter how long it takes them to regrow. 1 year? 5,000 years? Whatever. Your forts will die of FPS death long before you can use the existing trees 99.999% of the time.

Challenging gameplay requires immediate scarcity. Which I'm merely suggesting a mechanism to allow the OPTION to add for those who want it.  Go ahead and keep the exact same default settings as there are now! Fine by me.

[Neonivek]

Yeah but think of it this way.

There being too much wood until your fortress is of a certain size could be a very good gimmick. After all what is a self-sustaining amount of resources for 10 dwarves is not the same for 100.

THEN AGAIN since nothing wears or tears and everything takes 1 wood... the amount of wood you get is immense.

[GavJ]

There being too much wood until your fortress is of a certain size could be a very good gimmick. After all what is a self-sustaining amount of resources for 10 dwarves is not the same for 100.

It could be. Or it could not be. It depends on your gameplay desires.
The easy early game is good for newbies who need to be cut a break. But quite counter-productive for veterans who want a challenge.
Hence options.

(You're also assuming I'm ever going to get to 100 dwarves? What if I have, say, an older machine and I set my pop cap to 20 dwarves for FPS reasons? I might want to lower log amounts to maintain challenge. Or I'm doing a hermit gamne and I want the guy to have to cut down more than 1 tree ever.)

[Alev]

Alternatively, you could need a sawmill, which would mean you need to be slightly more advanced (some sort of power), and axes alone would take a long time to chop wood.

[GavJ]

Alternatively, you could need a sawmill, which would mean you need to be slightly more advanced (some sort of power), and axes alone would take a long time to chop wood.

Perhaps.

Note, however, that the suggested bonus syntax I put at the bottom of the OP would allow modders to implement things like sawmills as custom versions of the game, because it would allow us to have trees drop things other than logs, thus making them not immediately usable by carpenters. Then you would add a custom reaction that turns (whatever you had it drop instead) into usable wood things like planks.

(while also allowing crazy stuff like "chromium trees" that drop metal bars in a space alien mod or whatever your little heart desires)