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[Teneb]

Deathsword: Ah, hello.

But keep in mind that I am a player as well and being an IC doesn't mean being town.

{By informing players that they should be as wary of us as anyone else.}

So, Blitz, are you telling me you don't trust your own townieness?

You seem to be emphasizing the fact that an IC (such as you) could be scum, yet you vote for Blitz for doing the same thing. Is your IC advice ratting you out, or do you suspect that Nernjin is scum? How do you feel about the anailater/yobbo argument?

I do trust my own towniness, if that is what you are getting at. {As an IC, I merely wish to dispell the fear that some players have of ICs}. I do not suspect Nerjin, who, in fact, has no posts.

As for anailater/yobbo, I did comment on it as an IC, see my other post. As for the whole deal, I feel it's just both trying to determine if the other is scum.

[Frostmoon]

Deathsword: Okay. Do you believe it's easier to locate buddying or distancing? Is active-lurking a major scum tell in your opinion?

[yobbo]

Exactly what do you mean by playing carefully?

This question was very careful, and that's exactly what i mean. You've been dutifully posting a lot, but your posts seem carefully designed so as not to seem dangerous, and not slip up. A lot of banter and chat, but not really any content that would make someone accuse you of something, and nothing that would make someone else feel like you're attacking them either.

It seems to me that this would be an exellent scum tactic. What do you think?

Guiddom: Coming in and reading this fresh and all at once, what are your thoughts on everyone's posts?

Deathsword: Assuming Nerjin is scum, what will you do to make sure players learn the most from the experience?

[Frostmoon]

yobbo: Would you count evasion as careful posting? Also, imagine you're a cop, and you had just inspected one of the ICs, who happened to be scum. What would you do?

[Nerjin]

Hello everyone. I’m sorry I wasn’t on earlier. I haven’t been feeling up to mafia today unfortunately. ANYWAYS time for a bit of general advice:

QUOTE THE PERSON YOU ARE TALKING TO!!!!!!!!!

It makes it much easier to understand what you’re talking about yo!

Also, to restate what DS said, my IC voice will most likely be lime green because it’s pretty.
 
Anyways… Onto reads.

Spoiler: Anailater (click to show/hide)

The scumness of multiple suspicions decrease as the game goes by, as people die and behaviours become more traceable, but it's definitely suspicious and risky(Unless you know who everyone is) to suspect multiple people.
Also I have a question, what do you think us the best way to avoid being night killed?

No, it isn’t. It’s perfectly fine to be suspicious of multiple people at once in the early game. Especially day 1 where all you really have to go on are gut reads and the like. As the game goes on you can focus more on specific people AND you have more information to go on. So no multiple suspicions isn’t scummy.

Also, I like that question. Why did you ask it?

Spoiler: Blitz (click to show/hide)

Uhh...
I'm just going to be sitting here in the corner. Alone. Forever.

It is not our job to give you something to do. Get out there and pick apart answers and questions. But if you must have a question:

@Blitz: Do you think it is helpful to town to sit around waiting to be asked questions? I understand it's hard to be proactive. But you need to be if Town is going to win.

Spoiler: Frostmoon (click to show/hide)

Everyone: What scum tells are the most major, game-breaking ones in your opinion? How do you feel about buddying and distancing, a topic that's come up quite a bit thus far? How about activity and lack of it?

Lack of activity sucks but isn't much of a scum-tell. It's a tell that someone should have thought harder before joining the game. Active-lurking is the biggest scum-tell for me. I feel like buddying is a major one as is distancing.

Spoiler: Scripten (click to show/hide)

BlitzDungeoneer: Whoa whoa whoa. Bad idea there, mate. We don't want to be talking roles. That's really anti-town. Basically, you're telling the scum exactly who to stab in the night. The small amount of benefit gained from knowing roles has nothing on the massive cons.'

This.

Nerjin and Deathsword: You guys are ICs this round. How do you plan to counteract the change in behavior that such a role brings to a newbie game? (That is, either people are much more or much less suspicious or threatened by you because of your position of semi-authority.)

Well, I honestly don't care. All that matters to me is that we get the scum in the end. If I die in the process... Meh. I trust people in the game to play logically. If you see something up with my play then you need to press me on it.

Why did you vote me? Was it because I've done something that warrents getting voted? No? So it was a pressure vote right out of the gate with no real pressure behind it. I hate when people vote just to vote. Your vote is a weapon. I wouldn't appreciate you pointing a loaded gun at my face for giggles. Treat your vote like a loaded gun. It's going to get somebody killed.

Everyone: As we've seen before, games with newbies often end up with a ton of null tells just because inexperience is inherently a little scummy. We've had a few small things come up already in this game. How do you plan to separate inexperience from mafia slip-ups?

I take it by a case by case basis. I'll get onto people about newbie mistakes. Otherwise they won't learn.

Spoiler: Yobbo (click to show/hide)

Nerjin: If you're both scum and an IC, how will you balance that?
 

By killing those that I feel need killed while at the same time giving the best advice I can possibly give. How good at that I’d be I wouldn’t know as I’ve never really IC’ed as a Scum player.

You should be as sure as you can before voting, when you have to rely on your team, be it as colleagues or meat sheilds, you can't risk causing the death of one of your colleagues and gaining the suspicions of the others.

Can an IC comment on this? I don't think it's true. We have to risk causing the death of our colleagues. There's no other way to win. And as far as suspicion goes, if everyone was afraid of voting for looking suspicious then noone would be able to vote at all.

But i don't actually think your responses are scummy, so unvote anailater.

In my opinion your vote is a loaded gun. You should use it only if you are certain someone is scum or you want to pressure them. Just voting to vote is annoying and makes me view that person as trying to put on an act.

[yobbo]

yobbo: Would you count evasion as careful posting? Also, imagine you're a cop, and you had just inspected one of the ICs, who happened to be scum. What would you do?

No, i'd consider evasion as sloppy. Careful would be phrasing your response so that you always had a way out.

Looking at scripten's response to me for example, he very carefully asked for clarification as to exactly what i meant, while focusing the question on the issue of lurking. This could easily mean that he just misunderstood my question (as lurking was being discussed), but would also be a very careful play if he had understood my question perfectly but was trying to divert attention from what i actually meant to the safer topic (hunting lurkers, of which he is not one).

Thinking about it in that way, do you see what i mean, or am i barking up the wrong tree here?

As for if i were a cop and found an IC to be mafia, i'd either try my best to figure out who their partner was before letting on, or try to build a solid case against them by re-reading the thread with the extra knowledge i had.

Either way i probably wouldn't admit i was a cop unless town was dangerously close to losing.

In my opinion your vote is a loaded gun. You should use it only if you are certain someone is scum or you want to pressure them. Just voting to vote is annoying and makes me view that person as trying to put on an act.

How can you get someone to slip up if they don't at least think you're putting pressure on them? (serious question)

As i'm not voting you, you must be awful calm in your potentially scummy little world there.

[Frostmoon]

Nerjin:

Lack of activity sucks but isn't much of a scum-tell. It's a tell that someone should have thought harder before joining the game. Active-lurking is the biggest scum-tell for me. I feel like buddying is a major one as is distancing.

I agree with the activity thing, especially in a BM. Why is active-lurking the most important scum tell?

BlitzDungeoneer: Whoa whoa whoa. Bad idea there, mate. We don't want to be talking roles. That's really anti-town. Basically, you're telling the scum exactly who to stab in the night. The small amount of benefit gained from knowing roles has nothing on the massive cons.'

This.

BlitzDungeoneer: Whoa whoa whoa. Bad idea there, mate. We don't want to be talking roles. That's really anti-town. Basically, you're telling the scum exactly who to stab in the night. The small amount of benefit gained from knowing roles has nothing on the massive cons.

{In small games like this where the town has very few power roles it's a bad idea to mass roleclaim early, but roleclaims can often decide games in favor of the town in power-heavy games. It's certainly not anti-town, but it's sub-optimal to do it here.}

I find it interesting that you two seem to have completely different opinions on this matter. Nerjin, why is role-fishing scummy? Is it almost as scummy as active-lurking?  Deathsword, why is role-fishing merely suboptimal? Can you provide a game where role-fishing saved town?

yobbo:

yobbo: Would you count evasion as careful posting? Also, imagine you're a cop, and you had just inspected one of the ICs, who happened to be scum. What would you do?

No, i'd consider evasion as sloppy. Careful would be phrasing your response so that you always had a way out.

Looking at scripten's response to me for example, he very carefully asked for clarification as to exactly what i meant, while focusing the question on the issue of lurking. This could easily mean that he just misunderstood my question (as lurking was being discussed), but would also be a very careful play if he had understood my question perfectly but was trying to divert attention from what i actually meant to the safer topic (hunting lurkers, of which he is not one).

Thinking about it in that way, do you see what i mean, or am i barking up the wrong tree here?

I'd consider attempting to divert attention as evasion. Also, why do you consider evasion sloppy?

[Nerjin]

Nerjin:

Lack of activity sucks but isn't much of a scum-tell. It's a tell that someone should have thought harder before joining the game. Active-lurking is the biggest scum-tell for me. I feel like buddying is a major one as is distancing.

I agree with the activity thing, especially in a BM. Why is active-lurking the most important scum tell?

It might not be a scummy thing to do but it's incredibly scum sided. We need people actually playing the game. All active lurking does is put more hay on top of the needles we're trying to find. If someone does something actively scum-sided I tend to think they're scum.

BlitzDungeoneer: Whoa whoa whoa. Bad idea there, mate. We don't want to be talking roles. That's really anti-town. Basically, you're telling the scum exactly who to stab in the night. The small amount of benefit gained from knowing roles has nothing on the massive cons.'

This.

BlitzDungeoneer: Whoa whoa whoa. Bad idea there, mate. We don't want to be talking roles. That's really anti-town. Basically, you're telling the scum exactly who to stab in the night. The small amount of benefit gained from knowing roles has nothing on the massive cons.

{In small games like this where the town has very few power roles it's a bad idea to mass roleclaim early, but roleclaims can often decide games in favor of the town in power-heavy games. It's certainly not anti-town, but it's sub-optimal to do it here.}

I find it interesting that you two seem to have completely different opinions on this matter. Nerjin, why is role-fishing scummy? Is it almost as scummy as active-lurking?  Deathsword, why is role-fishing merely suboptimal? Can you provide a game where role-fishing saved town?

Let's say there are seven player [hm....] 1-7. 1 is a cop, 6 and 7 are mafia. 4 gets everyone to claim. 1 claims Cop and reveals that 3 isn't scum. That's nice and all. Now we have a 2/6 chance to get the scum. BUT now 6 and 7 know that 1 is a cop. They will do whatever it takes to get him lynched [not hard. People are, and should, be suspicious of cop roles.] or, if that fails, night kill him. Congratulations! By role-fishing you've killed the cop.

Also, it tends to be those who want to interfere with power roles who role-fish.

[yobbo]

I'd consider attempting to divert attention as evasion. Also, why do you consider evasion sloppy?

Oh, i took evasion to mean not answering questions. Like if someone just conveniently skipped answering some question it would only seem fishy if i noticed it (which i probably wouldn't if it was someone else's question). And then even if they're called out on it they could always say "oh i missed the question sorry". Sloppy because you could lazily do it, but it would be pretty obvious in hindsight.

[Frostmoon]

yobbo:

I'd consider attempting to divert attention as evasion. Also, why do you consider evasion sloppy?

Oh, i took evasion to mean not answering questions. Like if someone just conveniently skipped answering some question it would only seem fishy if i noticed it (which i probably wouldn't if it was someone else's question). And then even if they're called out on it they could always say "oh i missed the question sorry". Sloppy because you could lazily do it, but it would be pretty obvious in hindsight.

Ah. By evasion, I meant not fully answering/dodging the question.

[Gulddom]

Apologies for the late post. I haven't been near my computer for most of the day.
Frostmoon: To be honest I'm not sure what I expect. I have read through a couple of previous mafia threads and have a good idea of how play works though.
Illgeo: I've never played mafia before. I have played a couple similar games such as One Night Ultimate Werewolf and The Resistance however.
Scripten: I'm not sure how to separate inexperience with scum tells.
Second Frostmoon It seems like active lurking is one of the most major scum tells similar to what Blitzdungeon has done.
yobbo So far I'm not leaning towards anyone being scum except for possibly Blitzdungeon who I am suspicious of. Although this could just be inexperience.

[Frostmoon]

Gulddom: Welcome to the game! :3 So, why is Blitz scummier than everyone else? Is there anyone that's giving you a townie vibe, or is everyone else either neutral or null?

[Scripten]

Scripten: I'm a little surprised by their inactivity as by looking through their recent posts, both Nerjin and Deathsword appear to have been online today. Do you think that in later days activity will skyrocket, plummet, or remain steady?

From what I've played, it usually remains fairly steady, though the ends of days are generally a little more hectic. People start setting up votes and bandwagons form, all the fun daytime stuff.

Just because someone is a newbie doesn't mean they can't be scum. Flailing newbie scum drop a lot more tells than flailing town.

Since this is the only bit of non-IC content in your post that wasn't a pointed question for someone else, I'm going to make a comment here. Obviously, newbies are going to flail, and scum newbies a bit more, but what separates those tells? Is an evasive/confused newbie inherently more scummy to you than one who is active lurking, or vice versa? Does your strategy change with experienced players?

This question was very careful, and that's exactly what i mean. You've been dutifully posting a lot, but your posts seem carefully designed so as not to seem dangerous, and not slip up. A lot of banter and chat, but not really any content that would make someone accuse you of something, and nothing that would make someone else feel like you're attacking them either.

It seems to me that this would be an exellent scum tactic. What do you think?

You mean being clear? I haven't avoided any questions that I'm aware of, though if I've missed any, please go ahead and let me know. Obviously, I'm not going to go out of my way to be or seem dangerous, but I haven't held any punches. I just see no reason why I should need to attack anyone outright in the current climate. I've made my thoughts and suspicions clear. And, just to clarify, I focused on lurkers because we had two ICs doing just, which was really worrisome. (I've been in multiple games where scum literally posted twice or three times in the entire game and won.) Now that everyone's showed up, I have some content to go on.

Frankly, you could construe a lot as a good scum tactic during RVS. There's just not enough evidence to make good claims until we've all said our pieces. That being said, I do have my eyes set on BlitzDungeoneer. However, I'm keeping my vote on Nirjin for reasons I'll get into below.

Well, I honestly don't care. All that matters to me is that we get the scum in the end. If I die in the process... Meh. I trust people in the game to play logically. If you see something up with my play then you need to press me on it.

Why did you vote me? Was it because I've done something that warrents getting voted? No? So it was a pressure vote right out of the gate with no real pressure behind it. I hate when people vote just to vote. Your vote is a weapon. I wouldn't appreciate you pointing a loaded gun at my face for giggles. Treat your vote like a loaded gun. It's going to get somebody killed.

-snip-

In my opinion your vote is a loaded gun. You should use it only if you are certain someone is scum or you want to pressure them. Just voting to vote is annoying and makes me view that person as trying to put on an act.

Everything else you've said is fine with me, but as far as this goes... NOOOOOOOOOPE.

Putting pressure on other players with a vote is not anything like waving a gun in their face, and the implication goes against the entire idea of your vote being a power, which is something you guys touched upon earlier. I chose you because, out of everyone who hadn't spoken, I thought you would be the most interesting to hear from. Regardless, trying to bully people into not using their votes is basically telling the entire town not to use their most common and powerful tool for taking care of scum. If this was a situation where you were at L-1 (One vote left to lynch) I would have held my vote if I wasn't mostly sure, but that's not often the situation.

BlitzDungeoneer's (lack of meaningful) actions have made him very suspicious, as I mentioned above. However, this bit here is the most scummy to me thus far, so my vote stays where it is for now.

On last thing, you haven't used your lime IC text for any of your explanations yet. Does that mean that nothing you've said so far is to be objectively trustworthy? And does that mean you don't think we're pretty enough? Because we are.

[BlitzDungeoneer]

So...
I was asleep. And suddenly, 2 pages greet me. That's just great man.
Anyone mind rounding up what was asked of me?

[anailater]

So...
I was asleep. And suddenly, 2 pages greet me. That's just great man.
Anyone mind rounding up what was asked of me?

Blitz:People are suspicious of the lack of meaningful content in your actions, I'm not sure i agree, as there has t been much to say, however they are the IC's

Your wrong, votes are very important, it's like a loaded gun.
[/quite]
IC's: Really? To me it seems like voting heavy early on the first day is a dangerous game to play, especially as it could lead to a bandwagon situation
In previous games you've played how was the first day vote usually treated?