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Author Topic: Shield material  (Read 3044 times)

Megawott06

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Shield material
« on: July 03, 2014, 03:15:57 pm »

I'm wondering if a shields material has any impact on its performance and what the material might affect. Thanks in advance.
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Astrid

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Re: Shield material
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2014, 03:19:55 pm »

A rubber wood shield protects as good as an steel shield but doesnt weight your dwarf down.
thats a biiig advantage. However, if the Dwarf gets the idea to use the shield as a club then
the metal is obviously the better choise.
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Megawott06

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Re: Shield material
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2014, 03:22:43 pm »

Thanks for the answer. I'm outfitting a military and started to consider if it was worth using my iron for shields.
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Blastbeard

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Re: Shield material
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2014, 03:31:13 pm »

Confirmed. Shields appear to block all blows effectively regardless of material. Oak shields repel iron swords and dragonfire(!?) with equal ease. It makes shield bashing less effective but does not weigh them down as much, exactly as Astrid said. I wish I'd known this sooner.
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I don't know how it all works, I just throw molten science at the wall and see what ignites.

Melting Sky

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Re: Shield material
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2014, 04:16:44 pm »

If the dwarf is melee focused and has decent scores in strength and armor user its probably worth using a heavy metal such as copper for his shield, otherwise go with a high quality leather one. With a melee dwarf that gets disarmed, a good skull-bashing metal shield can often save their life. Conversely, giving one to a marksdwarf is almost always a bad idea.
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Bognor

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Re: Shield material
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2014, 08:24:52 pm »

I like to start with a proficient carpenter, and there's normally plenty of wood, so I make redundant wooden shields and just let my soldiers pick the highest quality.  I assume higher quality shields improve block chance, though I've never seen any !!SCIENCE!! to confirm.
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Melting Sky

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Re: Shield material
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2014, 01:21:30 am »

If you have feather wood that makes a really nice marksdwarf shield. Some of the denser woods are surprisingly heavy.
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sirdave79

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Re: Shield material
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2014, 02:01:04 am »

Ive seen some pretty convincing !science! which also suggests (well pretty much stamps on the notion) shield quality has no impact on blocking also.

I just did a quick search for the thread and I didnt find it. If I recall correctly though the thread has been created in the last 6 months. The author did not expect to discover quality has no effect on block chance.

So pretty much material and quality only has an effect for shield bashing. Low quality wooden shields for marksdwarves are therefore likely the way forward (and that was new to me also, I tended to accumulate masterwork sheilds for everyone).
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Panando

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Re: Shield material
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2014, 05:03:03 am »

Leather shields can be a better choice because leather can be ordered in far greater quantities form the mountainhome, and if you're going to construct a hundred shields (like for the entire civilian population) that'll add up on the log fronts, but will barely dent a leather order. The only thing with leather shields is due to a lack of leather material option you need to use color instead 'brown shield' and I believe 'exact matches' to restrict dwarves to leather (and highwood) shields.
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Bognor

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Re: Shield material
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2014, 08:32:54 am »

Ive seen some pretty convincing !science! which also suggests (well pretty much stamps on the notion) shield quality has no impact on blocking also.

I just did a quick search for the thread and I didnt find it. If I recall correctly though the thread has been created in the last 6 months. The author did not expect to discover quality has no effect on block chance.

So pretty much material and quality only has an effect for shield bashing. Low quality wooden shields for marksdwarves are therefore likely the way forward (and that was new to me also, I tended to accumulate masterwork sheilds for everyone).
Ah, the outstanding work by Zivilin, here.  Surprising indeed.  Only blocking of arrows was tested, though, so I guess there's still a chance, albeit slim, that shield quality has some influence in blocking melee attacks.  Also very surprising that bow quality had no influence on block %, at least in that experimental setup.
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Kneenibble

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Re: Shield material
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2014, 11:43:17 am »

I see how the numbers work, but I still want my army carrying masterwork steel shields.  Anything less would be uncivilized.
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sirdave79

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Re: Shield material
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2014, 02:46:01 pm »

Bognor, thanks for posting the link, that is indeed the one i had in mind

Kneenibble, I like your style. It still doesnt feel right giving out less than masterwork shields. Plus the heavy melee with bash shields should benefit a bit.

Uncivilised I love it !
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Melting Sky

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Re: Shield material
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2014, 01:02:19 am »

Ive seen some pretty convincing !science! which also suggests (well pretty much stamps on the notion) shield quality has no impact on blocking also.

I just did a quick search for the thread and I didnt find it. If I recall correctly though the thread has been created in the last 6 months. The author did not expect to discover quality has no effect on block chance.

So pretty much material and quality only has an effect for shield bashing. Low quality wooden shields for marksdwarves are therefore likely the way forward (and that was new to me also, I tended to accumulate masterwork sheilds for everyone).

That's interesting. Masterwork is still better in that it will give the dwarf who owns it happy thoughts about their awesome swag but it definitely means you can get away with giving them crappy quality shields without much penalty.

That is rather odd behavior. In fact, when I think about it, shields act pretty odd and potentially buggy in general. You can get a neophyte with no skill in shield wielding and they will block like 95% of dragon fire blasts that come at them. Has anybody done any real science on shield blocking probability and how it scales with skill? If so, I would love a link to where this information can be found.

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Panando

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Re: Shield material
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2014, 03:46:29 am »

Shield blocking uses an 'opposed skill level' thingy, that is a dabbling shield user will block easily against a dabbling fire breathing dragon, but wont enjoy the same block rating against a legendary fire breathing dragon. In other words a high blocking rate for a unskilled shield user is due to the unskilled attacks of the enemy. But a high skilled enemy will easily 'bypass' the dabblers shield. Of course most enemies in the game ARE unskilled so shields are a pretty good deal even for unskilled dwarves - but they wont do a thing against elite goblin snipers.
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greycat

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Re: Shield material
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2014, 07:17:42 am »

Masterwork is still better in that it will give the dwarf who owns it happy thoughts about their awesome swag

I have yet to see a single happy thought for a dwarf admiring her own equipment.  Do you have a screen shot of this happening?
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Hell, if nobody's suffocated because of it, it hardly counts as a bug! -- StLeibowitz
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