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[Sirus]

I'm sorry, UMD check is...?

Also, I'm totally planning on Craft Wands. Druid spells seem to be stupidly situational but highly useful, so it'd be nice to be able to cast some lesser-used spells without taking up valuable slots. Or I can make wands of frequently-used spells and fill my slots with less common spells.

* Sirus imagines crafting a Wand of Baleful Polymorph and turning all of our enemies into harmless critters

[Nerjin]

Two divine casters crafting wands hm? I suppose... I dunno. Seems a bit too redundant.

[Tawa]

I'm sorry, UMD check is...?

Use Magic Device. For all manner of wands, scrolls, staffs, activation-related arms and armor, and wondrous items that you don't know how to or normally can't use.
Two divine casters could conflict, but there's enough unique stuff among Druid and Cleric spell lists for it to not be that redundant.

Plus, if you make spare wands of death that you don't need, you can pawn them off on gnomes that live in mines that are a subsection of the most devious dungeon ever devised.

[Nerjin]

Hm... Maybe not. I see all these feats and I don't honestly know tht many I'd be interested in for Sacha.

[Sirus]

Two divine casters crafting wands hm? I suppose... I dunno. Seems a bit too redundant.

Well, I first mentioned crafting wands back on page 20, so it's not like I'm jumping on a bandwagon here >.>

Besides, we have different spell lists and abilities.

[Nerjin]

Hm... True... However, I'm also looking at Craft Magic Arms and Armor. That seems like it would be useful to the party. However, I'm not sure HOW useful it would be considering I'm a Cleric. But let's just assume I make a Merciful Greatsword [because I like them]... That's 50+300+2000+2000 [Sword + Masterwork + Enhancement Bonus + Special Ability] which comes out to 4350 if I'm correct on how these are made... So I'd have to pay 1/25 of that right? Which is 174 XP plus 2175 gold and... Actually I'm starting to think that maybe that wouldn't be a terrible idea... In general. I don't know if a Cleric should be dicking around with that though.

[Sirus]

Why not? It'd be useful, like you said, and I know I wouldn't say "no" to some enchanted armor or a more powerful weapon.

[Nerjin]

True but... Actually... Upon checking the books Sacha could craft quite a bit of stuff... Hm... I suppose that once I hit level 6 [since I don't think I can hold onto a feat] I'll go ahead and take that one.

[Flying Dice]

Better still, this is the sort of campaign where crafting things like that will actually be worthwhile, because there are fewer locations to potentially obtain new shinies.

[Tawa]

Being that the ocean is roughly the size of the [REDACTED] Sea from The Legend of [REDACTED]: The Wind [REDACTED], yeah, crafting is probably a good idea, considering how you have the time to spare and I still have a lot of world to flesh out and decide what shinies should go where.

HINT HINT: powerful shinies could have their locations hinted at with certain knowledge checks[/hint hint]

[Nerjin]

So using my limited understanding of magic I decided to see what the MAX amount of stuff I will be paying to make you guys engines of death. This is using a Two-Bladed sword as a weapon with both ends being masterwork though only one enchanted… Basically it’s the most expensive there is.

+1 = 108xp and 1350gp
+2 = 348xp and 4350gp
+3 = 748xp and 9350gp
+4 = 1,308xp and 16,350gp
+5 = 2,028xp and 25,350gp
+6 = 2,908xp and 36,350gp
+7 = 3,948xp and 49,350gp
+8 = 5,148xp and 64,350gp
+9 = 6,508xp and 81,350gp
+10 = 8,028xp and 100,350gp

So… That seems odd really… A +10 = 200,000 in price but a +5 Enchantment bonus is 50,000 so… Wouldn’t a +5 Enchantment and a +5 Special Ability be 100,000? The DMG says it’s 200,000 though… Seems a bit odd to me.

[Harbingerjm]

This is using a Two-Bladed sword as a weapon with both ends being masterwork though only one enchanted… Basically it’s the most expensive there is.

Incorrect! If you're only enchanting one head, a double-headed weapon costs no more than an ordinary weapon. Now, a Cold Iron weapon... *Shudders*

+1 = 108xp and 1350gp
+2 = 348xp and 4350gp
+3 = 748xp and 9350gp
+4 = 1,308xp and 16,350gp
+5 = 2,028xp and 25,350gp
+6 = 2,908xp and 36,350gp
+7 = 3,948xp and 49,350gp
+8 = 5,148xp and 64,350gp
+9 = 6,508xp and 81,350gp
+10 = 8,028xp and 100,350gp

...How are you getting these numbers?
The base price for a +1 bonus is 2000. To enchant a magic item, you use half the base price in GP (more if Cold Iron, less if certain synergies or item templates, varying based on some other factors) and 1/25th the base price in experience. The table would go like this, assuming no Cold Iron, synergies/templates, etc:
+1 = 80xp and 1000gp
+2 = 320xp and 4000gp
+3 = 720xp and 9000gp
+4 = 1,280xp and 16,000gp
+5 = 2,028xp and 25,000gp
+6 = 2,880xp and 36,000gp
+7 = 3,920xp and 49,000gp
+8 = 5,120xp and 64,000gp
+9 = 6,480xp and 81,000gp
+10 = 8,000xp and 100,000gp

So… That seems odd really… A +10 = 200,000 in price but a +5 Enchantment bonus is 50,000 so… Wouldn’t a +5 Enchantment and a +5 Special Ability be 100,000? The DMG says it’s 200,000 though… Seems a bit odd to me.

No, because the enhancement bonus and any special ability priced equal to enhancement bonus are added together to determine the base price of the weapon, as the table explains.
Now, there are also special abilities given flat prices, as opposed to priced in bonus equivalents, and those work a little differently.

[Flying Dice]

Special enchantments are treated as additive to the +# enchantments for the purposes of determining cost and how many you can have. So for example, enchanting a sword to be +3 and to have an enchantment described as equivalent to a +2 enchantment would be the same as if you were enchanting it to be +5. In this case, since you're adding a +5 enchantment and an enchantment equivalent to +5, it's treated as if you were adding a +10 enchantment, because that's the effective outcome. Doing it the way you're describing would be equivalent to making something like a Masterwork Greatsword +5 +5, as opposed to a Masterwork Greatsword +10 or a [+5 Equivalent Enchantment] Masterwork Greatsword +5; the latter two are equivalent in cost and make sense by RAW, the first doesn't.

At least that's how I recall it working from the last time I needed to work out the enchantment rules.

e: ninja'd.

Also, IIRC Harbinger is correct that you pay normal cost under the conditions you specified. I guess you could rationalize it by describing it as being two weapons which happen to be attached or something? I've never actually used a double-headed weapon, so I'm not certain of the mechanics, but it seems like there's two options: the whole thing counts as one weapon but gives more than the normal number of attacks/has higher than normal damage for a single-headed equivalent (in which case the cost should be increased), or it's treated as multiple weapons (in which case they attack normally except for special circumstances? Maybe? And, of course, the cost should be normal for enchanting heads separately.)

That brings up another idea, though: if the heads are treated as separate weapons for the purposes of enchantment, would the same hold true for material? Make one mythril to lighten the thing, or silver/cold iron for damage penetration against a common enemy in a campaign, &c?

[Harbingerjm]

as opposed to a Masterwork Greatsword +10 or a [+5 Equivalent Enchantment] Masterwork Greatsword +5; the latter two are equivalent in cost and make sense by RAW, the first doesn't.

Also, IIRC Harbinger is correct that you pay normal cost under the conditions you specified. I guess you could rationalize it by describing it as being two weapons which happen to be attached or something?

2 A weapon can’t actually have a bonus higher than +5. Use these lines to determine price when special abilities are added in.

[Flying Dice]

Yeah, I know it's not rules-legal in practice. It was a theoretical model to demonstrate the equivalency specifically in terms of the situation Nerjin was asking about, and I'm certain we both know what I meant. I worded it poorly -- it makes sense by RAW in terms of the cost of the enchantment if it were, hypothetically, to be crafted. Better?


Do keep in mind that what I said earlier carries over. If you try to start more pointless fights because of whatever problem it is you have with me, I'm not going to feed back into it, okay?