You know what, fuck it- this demands a response.
Why am I not surprised?
Specifically, why I am calling it quits permanently on this game universe, in no particular order.
The people in it do not behave like people. They are shoe-horned into trope-centered behaviors, reinforced with bullshit. Piss whizzardry everywhere-- Oh ,wait-- "Heresy"
Eeeh. Sure, quite a lot of them do, Primarches and Marines are quite literally walking tropes (though tropes aren't something that's necessarily bad either, it all depends on their usage), but that's essentially their entire shtick - they're more than human, they're like gods and heroes of ancient plays, with every characteristic of theirs magnified, but others, more human characters in the more ambitious pieces of work tend to have somewhat interesting stories. They're making a TV series out of Eisenhorn, after all, he can't be all that bad.
The people in this thread, with yourself being a prime example, are so full of themselves it's a wonder they dont get stuck for hours at every mirror. I would rather not play with people like that.
As an anecdote I only own one mirror and the last time I looked in it was when I shaved, which to be honest was quite a while ago. Probably should admire myself more often. I am pretty arrogant, as many people can probably confirm, so I guess you got me there.
This whole exchange has been a painful lesson in "Hold my beer, somebody's wrong on the internet!" Many times you have bluntly said things along the lines of "LOL, thats old stuff bro, and not how it works anyway", being as snide and dismissive as possible, rather than offering more recent sources so I could improve my understanding. No, you had to play the dick card, over and over and over. I'm done. It's not possible to have a civil conversation with somebody that wont be civil.
I mean, I'm talking about something which, in all my arrogance, I like to think I know something about. I don't claim to know everything, but I like to think that if I present my point of view on something I am wrong about, someone will come, just like I have come, to explain why it's wrong (and while going "google it" for something readily available can be okay, going "just research it,
bro" for a specific theory of Australian Southern Michelin ant biochemistry does seem like acting pretty... elitist), and I don't consider having counter-arguments as some form of unwillingness to learn, but as a form of trying to understand, even if it takes a lot of time (of course not everyone has that time, but then it should be understood that without exhausting the subject one cannot really understand and change his world-view).
As far as "old stuff,
bro" goes, with maybe the specific example of the Enslaver lore - there isn't actually much newer lore to go off, but it's generally understood that the older sources (and really, heck, all sources) might be taken with a grain of salt since they come from a vastly different era. However, none of what I said about that was taken from anywhere else, and actually was written with me having the page about Enslavers and other Warp Creatures open. I'd be happy to provide a link, but I'm not sure about what the legal status of it is exactly, but it can be easily found if you Google something along the lines "Rogue Trader 1st Edition WH40K PDF" (the book is from 1987, so yeah). The pages about Warp creatures are around 205, I recall. On the other hand, I also find discussions by the way of throwing specific page excerpts at each other somewhat boring and time-consuming, so don't really expect me to want to participate in that. As a note though, you haven't provided any sources either, so there's that,
bro.
Repeatedly, you have expressed your personal opinions on things as if they were the words of god himself. Things like how simulated reality is always torture.
I didn't say simulated reality is always torture - you are the one who are saying you want to simulate reaching into Warp - that could be equated, in more regular language, to simulating reaching into literal hell,
bro. If that's not torture using simulated reality, I don't know what is. Another way of torture was that I understood you'd be creating fake reality for the subjects, with like, fake regular lives which presumably include simulated loved ones and such, then taking that away by revealing to the
bros that they were actually brains in a jar and it was a lie all along. That doesn't seem pretty positive either, though maybe less in a way of regular torture.
EDIT: Though yes, I do think in negatives about the idea of having someone in simulated reality and lying about it. While perception itself is subjective, it's the closest people get to truth - subverting that and showing them fake reality is pretty despicable in my book, which is the same reason I tend to feel negative towards things such as hypnosis and returning to more science-fiction grounds - mind control. If your mind is not free, nothing is.
It's bullshit. It will always be bullshit. Your inability to even stop and listen to what I said, many times, about things like how ascetic training in primitive cultures works, or how cults indoctrinate people, because "NO! WRONG!" is impenetrable. You continue it even now, by calling the idea in its totality "pointless." It's only pointless in your own mind, because you cling like a drowning man to your own opinions as if they are facts.
Uhhh... I think if there are
bros that actually have stopped and listened to what was being said, I think those sentences pretty much sum it up.
Go on- check out how brutal ascetic training is, and then fact check your assertions that this would make the adherents hate their teachers. You will find almost without fail, that you are spectacularly wrong. But dont let little things like that distract you.
I'm not sure about your point here, though. I'd give you that you may have raised it, but this got pretty confusing along the way, and I'm pretty sure that's true for you also. I'm also not sure what ascetic training you mean in particular - that term could be ascribed to tons of stuff (I mean, considering the word literally comes from Greek for "training",
bro). However this does seem like a vast over-generalization, because I don't think it'd be that impossible for someone taking part in ascetic training to start hating the idea. Of course that doesn't mean they all would start hating it, but hey, since we're apparently only thinking in absolutes now. Either way,
bro, I don't really see how cults or ascetic training equates with simulating a plane of utter horror for someone for over ten years, but eh, sure. Also, again, I think you overestimate the cult indoctrination infallibility, since I'm pretty sure there were quite a few people who have in fact left a cult after indoctrination due to one reason or another.
YOU WON! HURRAY!
Now go on your merry way.
I'm pretty comfortable here, thank you,
bro. Also, what's the reward?