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[Dorsidwarf]

Epic rage quit over your dumb "expose billions of cloned brains in a jar to the warp, tell them they have to fight it forever, then shoot them off into space" idea being shot down

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Now we'll never get to hear about the plausibility of the remaining space marine organs.

[Kot]

*refills popcorn *
Please continue the pointless argument about a hypothetical plan in a fictional universe with arbitrary physics and literal space magic.

Thank you for your contribution.

You know, if this is the way you are going to behave toward a person who is really just trying his gawd awful best to understand this fucking drek, congratulations. You, personally, have succeeded in turning me off from this game universe permanently. Good job hero. I will never post in this thread again.

Calling an argument pointless because it pertains to a work of fiction is not trying to understand anything, and is frankly pretty pointless on it's own. Sure, a work of fiction means the author can do whatever they want with it, but the quality of the work can vary greatly depending on how much sense it makes, and even in a work of fiction written by so many authors there can be attempts at figuring out some rules and rationalizing the universe and what would work and what wouldn't work. If such argument is pointless due to it not being about something real, all works of fiction are essentially pointless, and I don't think I need to go out of my way to try and prove that works of fiction do hold significance to people and can have very real impact. It's like coming to a a role-playing game and telling the participants it's "pointless" - well, sure, okay? Did you really feel the need to go and tell people doing something that you think what they're doing is pointless? It's a thread about Warhammer 40K, and this falls very much in the scope of it. If one really needs a reason, arguing over hypothetical plans in a fictional universe with arbitrary physics and literal space magic could at least be considered an exercise of mind, I guess.   
If you meant yourself, you also aren't trying to make sense out of anything, you are trying to prove that the universe is stupid and you'd do a much better job. I don't think it's something negative, though you should be prepared for people to dismantle it in the same way. I personally found arguing over this a pretty enjoyable distraction, although you starting to go into telling me I don't understand something rather than explaining it to reinforce your argument was pretty off-putting.

[LoSboccacc]

worth pointing out that all the fluff comes from unreliable narrators

[wierd]

*refills popcorn *
Please continue the pointless argument about a hypothetical plan in a fictional universe with arbitrary physics and literal space magic.

Thank you for your contribution.

You know, if this is the way you are going to behave toward a person who is really just trying his gawd awful best to understand this fucking drek, congratulations. You, personally, have succeeded in turning me off from this game universe permanently. Good job hero. I will never post in this thread again.

Calling an argument pointless because it pertains to a work of fiction is not trying to understand anything, and is frankly pretty pointless on it's own. Sure, a work of fiction means the author can do whatever they want with it, but the quality of the work can vary greatly depending on how much sense it makes, and even in a work of fiction written by so many authors there can be attempts at figuring out some rules and rationalizing the universe and what would work and what wouldn't work. If such argument is pointless due to it not being about something real, all works of fiction are essentially pointless, and I don't think I need to go out of my way to try and prove that works of fiction do hold significance to people and can have very real impact. It's like coming to a a role-playing game and telling the participants it's "pointless" - well, sure, okay? Did you really feel the need to go and tell people doing something that you think what they're doing is pointless? It's a thread about Warhammer 40K, and this falls very much in the scope of it. If one really needs a reason, arguing over hypothetical plans in a fictional universe with arbitrary physics and literal space magic could at least be considered an exercise of mind, I guess.
If you meant yourself, you also aren't trying to make sense out of anything, you are trying to prove that the universe is stupid and you'd do a much better job. I don't think it's something negative, though you should be prepared for people to dismantle it in the same way. I personally found arguing over this a pretty enjoyable distraction, although you starting to go into telling me I don't understand something rather than explaining it to reinforce your argument was pretty off-putting.

You know what, fuck it- this demands a response.


Specifically, why I am calling it quits permanently on this game universe, in no particular order.

The people in it do not behave like people. They are shoe-horned into trope-centered behaviors, reinforced with bullshit. Piss whizzardry everywhere-- Oh ,wait-- "Heresy"

The people in this thread, with yourself being a prime example, are so full of themselves it's a wonder they dont get stuck for hours at every mirror. I would rather not play with people like that.

This whole exchange has been a painful lesson in "Hold my beer, somebody's wrong on the internet!"  Many times you have bluntly said things along the lines of "LOL, thats old stuff bro, and not how it works anyway", being as snide and dismissive as possible, rather than offering more recent sources so I could improve my understanding.  No, you had to play the dick card, over and over and over. I'm done. It's not possible to have a civil conversation with somebody that wont be civil.

Repeatedly, you have expressed your personal opinions on things as if they were the words of god himself.  Things like how simulated reality is always torture.  It's bullshit. It will always be bullshit. Your inability to even stop and listen to what I said, many times, about things like how ascetic training in primitive cultures works, or how cults indoctrinate people, because "NO! WRONG!" is impenetrable.  You continue it even now, by calling the idea in its totality "pointless."  It's only pointless in your own mind, because you cling like a drowning man to your own opinions as if they are facts.  Go on- check out how brutal ascetic training is, and then fact check your assertions that this would make the adherents hate their teachers.  you will find almost without fail, that you are spectacularly wrong. But dont let little things like that distract you.

YOU WON!  HURRAY!

Now go on your merry way.

[Loud Whispers]

*refills popcorn *
Please continue the pointless argument about a hypothetical plan in a fictional universe with arbitrary physics and literal space magic.

They're clearly arguing it within the context of 40k itself, obeying the setting's own internal logic with its own established rules. It's like wandering into an argument over the LOTR hobbits flying the ring to mordor on the eagles and then saying the hobbits could've just used a fleet of B-52 Stratofortresses to strategic bomb mordor to the ground, as LOTR is a work of fiction. Everyone is aware of this, they are having fun discussing plans which don't break the verisimilitude of this setting.

I also very much like the idea of a bunch of pissed off psychic brain jars wreaking havoc on the imperium as revenge against some radical inquisitor's plan to kill chaos. Although it does look like not everyone is having fun anymore

[Trekkin]

You know what, fuck it- this demands a response.

This whole exchange has been a painful lesson in "Hold my beer, somebody's wrong on the internet!"

Yes, it has, but perhaps not in the way you meant.

[Kot]

You know what, fuck it- this demands a response.

Why am I not surprised?

Specifically, why I am calling it quits permanently on this game universe, in no particular order.

The people in it do not behave like people. They are shoe-horned into trope-centered behaviors, reinforced with bullshit. Piss whizzardry everywhere-- Oh ,wait-- "Heresy"

Eeeh. Sure, quite a lot of them do, Primarches and Marines are quite literally walking tropes (though tropes aren't something that's necessarily bad either, it all depends on their usage), but that's essentially their entire shtick - they're more than human, they're like gods and heroes of ancient plays, with every characteristic of theirs magnified, but others, more human characters in the more ambitious pieces of work tend to have somewhat interesting stories. They're making a TV series out of Eisenhorn, after all, he can't be all that bad.

The people in this thread, with yourself being a prime example, are so full of themselves it's a wonder they dont get stuck for hours at every mirror. I would rather not play with people like that.

As an anecdote I only own one mirror and the last time I looked in it was when I shaved, which to be honest was quite a while ago. Probably should admire myself more often. I am pretty arrogant, as many people can probably confirm, so I guess you got me there.

This whole exchange has been a painful lesson in "Hold my beer, somebody's wrong on the internet!"  Many times you have bluntly said things along the lines of "LOL, thats old stuff bro, and not how it works anyway", being as snide and dismissive as possible, rather than offering more recent sources so I could improve my understanding.  No, you had to play the dick card, over and over and over. I'm done. It's not possible to have a civil conversation with somebody that wont be civil.

I mean, I'm talking about something which, in all my arrogance, I like to think I know something about. I don't claim to know everything, but I like to think that if I present my point of view on something I am wrong about, someone will come, just like I have come, to explain why it's wrong (and while going "google it" for something readily available can be okay, going "just research it, bro" for a specific theory of Australian Southern Michelin ant biochemistry does seem like acting pretty... elitist), and I don't consider having counter-arguments as some form of unwillingness to learn, but as a form of trying to understand, even if it takes a lot of time (of course not everyone has that time, but then it should be understood that without exhausting the subject one cannot really understand and change his world-view).
As far as "old stuff, bro" goes, with maybe the specific example of the Enslaver lore - there isn't actually much newer lore to go off, but it's generally understood that the older sources (and really, heck, all sources) might be taken with a grain of salt since they come from a vastly different era. However, none of what I said about that was taken from anywhere else, and actually was written with me having the page about Enslavers and other Warp Creatures open. I'd be happy to provide a link, but I'm not sure about what the legal status of it is exactly, but it can be easily found if you Google something along the lines "Rogue Trader 1st Edition WH40K PDF" (the book is from 1987, so yeah). The pages about Warp creatures are around 205, I recall. On the other hand, I also find discussions by the way of throwing specific page excerpts at each other somewhat boring and time-consuming, so don't really expect me to want to participate in that. As a note though, you haven't provided any sources either, so there's that, bro.

Repeatedly, you have expressed your personal opinions on things as if they were the words of god himself.  Things like how simulated reality is always torture.

I didn't say simulated reality is always torture - you are the one who are saying you want to simulate reaching into Warp - that could be equated, in more regular language, to simulating reaching into literal hell, bro. If that's not torture using simulated reality, I don't know what is. Another way of torture was that I understood you'd be creating fake reality for the subjects, with like, fake regular lives which presumably include simulated loved ones and such, then taking that away by revealing to the bros that they were actually brains in a jar and it was a lie all along. That doesn't seem pretty positive either, though maybe less in a way of regular torture.
EDIT: Though yes, I do think in negatives about the idea of having someone in simulated reality and lying about it. While perception itself is subjective, it's the closest people get to truth - subverting that and showing them fake reality is pretty despicable in my book, which is the same reason I tend to feel negative towards things such as hypnosis and returning to more science-fiction grounds - mind control. If your mind is not free, nothing is.

It's bullshit. It will always be bullshit. Your inability to even stop and listen to what I said, many times, about things like how ascetic training in primitive cultures works, or how cults indoctrinate people, because "NO! WRONG!" is impenetrable. You continue it even now, by calling the idea in its totality "pointless." It's only pointless in your own mind, because you cling like a drowning man to your own opinions as if they are facts.

Uhhh... I think if there are bros that actually have stopped and listened to what was being said, I think those sentences pretty much sum it up.

Go on- check out how brutal ascetic training is, and then fact check your assertions that this would make the adherents hate their teachers. You will find almost without fail, that you are spectacularly wrong. But dont let little things like that distract you.

I'm not sure about your point here, though. I'd give you that you may have raised it, but this got pretty confusing along the way, and I'm pretty sure that's true for you also. I'm also not sure what ascetic training you mean in particular - that term could be ascribed to tons of stuff (I mean, considering the word literally comes from Greek for "training", bro). However this does seem like a vast over-generalization, because I don't think it'd be that impossible for someone taking part in ascetic training to start hating the idea. Of course that doesn't mean they all would start hating it, but hey, since we're apparently only thinking in absolutes now. Either way, bro, I don't really see how cults or ascetic training equates with simulating a plane of utter horror for someone for over ten years, but eh, sure. Also, again, I think you overestimate the cult indoctrination infallibility, since I'm pretty sure there were quite a few people who have in fact left a cult after indoctrination due to one reason or another.

YOU WON!  HURRAY!

Now go on your merry way.

I'm pretty comfortable here, thank you, bro. Also, what's the reward?

[Eschar]

Make sure to keep the debate going. I want to see how long before it turns into a quantum mechanics discussion.

[Trekkin]

Make sure to keep the debate going. I want to see how long before it turns into a quantum mechanics discussion.

There was already some pop quantum superposition-of-states woo about time travel, if that suits you.

[Digital Hellhound]

I also very much like the idea of a bunch of pissed off psychic brain jars wreaking havoc on the imperium as revenge against some radical inquisitor's plan to kill chaos. Although it does look like not everyone is having fun anymore

I know, right? I'm itching to adapt this into a Dark Heresy campaign or something. I like the idea that one of the pods crash-lands on an Imperial world and somehow projects its virtual world over an ever-expanding area of realspace, and the players have to enter it to deal with the brain inside its own mind. Maybe a daemon is gradually corrupting and twisting the virtual reality as they advance, and it's a race against time before the poor lost brain succumbs.

I thought we were having a fun discussion. I disagreed heavily with your interpretations, wierd, but I didn't mean it to be personal in any way. I'm sorry that we are 'so full of ourselves it's a wonder we don't get stuck for hours in front of every mirror'. I thought we just had very different ideas about the setting, and since it's a setting we care about, of course we're going to argue our points.

[Egan_BW]

Deciding that you don't like a fictional setting because people on an unrelated forum argued with your harebrained scheme is actually pretty petty.

To be entirely too frank and not nice at all (sorry in advance) "full of themself" is the impression that I get from just about every post that wierd makes, in this thread and elsewhere.

[NullForceOmega]

Bluntly, the sheer insular nature of the 40k community in general, and the asinine vitriolic defenders of that insular community in particular, is one of the reasons that I got out.  That and GW's fucking insane pricing scheme.

It's perfectly acceptable to try to inform others when they have misunderstood the lore or are not in possession of complete information.  But I really can't see how that should enable people to be unpleasant about it.

[Rolan7]

You're both really cool and it hurt to see that argument

Honestly I think this setting isn't right for you Weird, because it's inherently illogical.  I'm reminded of when I visited a Star Trek club at school and argued for my idea (which I came up with independently) for using teleporters to clone.  Nobody wanted to hear it, not because it was inconsistent with the setting's technology, but because it went against the tone of the show.

And Kot I love to pick your brain about this crazy-ass setting, and I agree with your points here, but I worry that you take the Imperium a bit seriously maybe.
(and I'm the one who drunkposts about being a Slaanesh-fearing Eldar so clearly I'm not judging)

[Kot]

inherently illogical

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

And Kot I love to pick your brain about this crazy-ass setting, and I agree with your points here, but I worry that you take the Imperium a bit seriously maybe.
(and I'm the one who drunkposts about being a Slaanesh-fearing Eldar so clearly I'm not judging)

I assure you I do not have Imperial Aquila tattoos on my forehead, I do not actually attack albino people with chainsaws or burn fortune tellers on a stake. Not very often at least, and I try to keep it consensual.