I missed some of the discussion but I didnt see this being brought up vis. Demon Engines/posession of machines with a will.
I always assumed that unless you start involving chaos binding magic (aka for magic demon swords) then it needs to be something with a will, such as a Knight's/Titan's machine spirit. But once the titan spirit is posessed, its body, the titan, starts undergoing demonic corruption, often into fleshy monstrosity forms and its the corruption which is irreversible rather than the posession itself.
Well, yes. It's something that needs a Machine Spirit, so to speak. That "will" is the "Soul" of a being, which forms from feelings, from there being a conscious AI, the fallout of consciousnesses of the pilots, and so on. It's often explained as someone attributing human feelings to a car, until the car starts to actually have those feelings. The corruption of the physical object is reversible, but it's usually not perfect, and severing the Machine Spirit from a physical object is also a non-trivial matter.
Oh and also Im not hot on titan engine lore but arent the machine spirits of these things generally considered non-interchangeable? s'why old ones have immense pride and some older ones can kill their pilot solely through mental feedback if they're not strong enough.
Yes, which is the soul part developed by mentioned ways. The old ones have stronger souls because they took more time to develop it, presumably had more pilots, had experienced more feelings, and so on.
Is Terra in chaos space? How many psykers are there? Wasn't Big E there for how many millennia? Oh-- right, he's special because reasons... Right. /s
Terra is not in Chaos Space because psykers there are sanctioned and otherwise protected by Emperor. He is special, beacuse reasons, yes.
Perhaps you were not paying attention. The simulation literally simulates being exposed to the immaterium, and its crazy, in a controlled manner. The closes analog is a vaccination; Being subjected to bits of a virus, that has been rendered incapable of replication, to train the immune system to fight it on contact. Same basic idea. It's not just "magic school LOLS!", it's "Today you will experience mind fuck; I will stop the exercise when you fail. Then you will try again. This will continue until you succeed, then I will expose you to MORE mindfuck."
That sounds retarded. Firstly, imitating actual Immaterium is essentially impossible, because the place defies imagination, so to speak. Secondly, subjecting a psyker to mindfuck gives you an exactly reverse result - their feelings are now negative and, well, chaotic, and if and when they develop psychic powers, they're now actively creating bad Warp juju around themselves.
Also,
subjecting brains in jars to torture again.Way to miss the point I see. Again, the christian doctrinal faith teaches that the world is temporary, and the source of sin; You are instructed to eschew what it demands from you, and instead focus on the spiritual. This is as close to a drop-in as you can get. But sure, be oblivious. /s
I don't get the relevance at all.
And you are not approaching it like a cult member. Clearly, you have never studied cults, or how they influence human psyches. Instead of doing so, you claim you are right, because your current subjective experience, which is based not on being a cult, but on being outside one, dictates that answer. If you cannot be bothered to actually research this shit, I wont argue with you, because it's pointless. Suffice it to say, you are wrong.
And I will now claim you're wrong and to that stupid durr, look mom I won, hurr. People who take the time to respond and also act self-righteous in discussion while providing no arguments is one of things that are actually capable of putting me off people, because that's just practiced ignorance. Fuck off with that attitude.
Now, I still don't get how that's really relevant - just because they were indoctrinated in a manner similar to a cult, it is now effectively impossible for them to change beliefs? Man, if you did research then your research sucks ass, especially considering the most popular knowledge about cult workings comes from people who are ex-members of those, something which you now claim is impossible.
Again, same problem as above. You are approaching it from your own narrow perspective, without thinking outside it, from other perspectives. Please, never attempt to write fiction.
Pot, kettle, something, something. Please write some fiction so people can laugh at it.
That is exactly the point. You just are so caught up in "NOOOooooo! DO. NOT. WAAAAANNNT!" to grasp it. Ordered thoughts are still thoughts. The highly controlled environment of the simulation removes triggers that would promote chaos-fueling thoughts, and instead foster only highly order-fueling thoughts. The fact that it *HAS THOUGHTS* is kinda the godamn point!!
Yes, and the point is wrong. I get the idea of "orderly" thoughts impacting Immaterium, but no, psykers whole shtick is not that they have more impact on Immaterium in terms of their souls - they have more impact on Materium with their souls, which makes using psykers for the task somewhat of weird choice. Also, you're pretty caught up in "YESSSSsssss! DO. WAAAAAAANNNNT!" to actually reason properly. See? I can do it too.
Not all. Just a non-trivial portion.
Of strained war machine. On a plan that essentially cannot work.
Right.
Oh, and abducting psykers on hive worlds, and shoving them into the furnace keeping big E alive is somehow not mass murder? Did you forget this setting or something? /s
It's not, because those psykers keep Emperor alive, and thus Imperium going. Purposefully making people just for huge amount of them to never actually accomplish something is mass murder, because it achieves nothing - they cannot die on battlefield, they cannot fuel Emperor, they do not die in factories making more guns. One is a noble sacrifice, other is just killing people because you made it so that they cannot make that sacrifice.
They have to travel via the warp to get to these pods. I don't think you grasp how far apart the scattering is intended to be. We are talking several AU as the normative figure. They would have to make a warp entrance/exit for *EACH POD*. Since time taken in the immaterium is... Not consistent.. in real space, it could take them mere hours, or hundreds of years, to move from pod to pod. Depends on the currents in the area. There are only so many ships available, sending a whole squadron is nonsense-- So we are talking breaking up squadrons to do this.
It doesn't require a big ship - there are immense numbers of small ships that could be used for this - Chaos Space Marines have a bit of an upper hand since they were effectively THE Imperial Fleet back then, and with what Horus being the de-facto military leader of Imperial forces back then, they got the best shit. Of course they have suffered attrition or losses, but it should be noted that they'd be actively supported by Chaos Gods which have immense power INSIDE the Warp, so they'd essentially be able to guide them in time to wherever they want, which is actually the main reason why Chaos Space Marine power is hard to quantify - there are still reinforcements coming that are essentially fresh from Horus Heresy. Provided the plan were to actually work then Chaos Gods would surely do everything in their power to fuck that shit up, so it'd be more concerning if they did nothing to stop it.
Mines are a thing. Again, single ship. Not a squadron.
But for a single ship to be effectively taken out, you probably need a ship of your own. So now, instead of protecting the Imperial planets, Imperial Fleet floats around to protect some cans floating in space that might not even be important in first place, not to mention their presence, and the presumed presence of Chaos ship now provides souls which were apparently not supposed to be around the place.
A powerful mind, aligned with order, dumps its mental contents into the immaterium. Another drop of rain falls, adding to the deluge.
That's presuming it's aligned with Order. Also, it's a drop of rain falling into the deluge of Chaotic thoughts. You'd have to essentially have more Order aligned minds than Chaotic aligned minds (and by a wide margin, since due to how Warp works disturbances caused long time ago can echo through it still, see War in Heaven), so you'd essentially need more of those brains in cans than there are living beings in entire Galaxy, give or take.
Non-trivial portion, huh?
And even if they aren't strong enough, they still become a drop of mental energy going back into the immaterium in a flood. A drop of energy that is not aligned with chaos. It's still too late.
They die. They probably have some negative emotions associated with it. That might be one sour drop.
Telling the future is literally collapsing a lightcone, with information about how a particle is behaving. It's observation. That you dont understand this is not a valid argument against it.
No, yes, not really. There are some existential real-life arguments that could be made here, but the main in-universe one it's kinda humorous talking about uncertainty principle in an universe which has essentially beings that are stretching in time and observing quite a lot, be it Chaos, Emperor or Eldar or the meta of Games Workshop authors.