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[Kot]

TONY STARK BUILT ULTIMATE APOCALYPSE IN A CAVE... WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS

There always have been a bunch of really great WH40k mods, like Exterminatus: Rival Species, the OFP/Arma WH40k mods and now the Men of War WH40k mods.
And yeah, I was saying pretty much the same thing. You want games that shake things up and are really famous and popular, and take issue with the smaller games which aren't really bad in themselves, just that they aren't really not something you'd play without it having 40k tag on it (apart from, in my case, Armageddon, as I am pretty used to their Panzer Corps and thought Armageddon was a nice translation of Panzer Corps engine into WH40k, especially since it was actually more than just basically mission pack with new sprites for Panzer Corps with it giving almost all units ranged attacks to create more of a difference between ranged and close combat, something I could see being used more in Panzer Corps, as I am hyped as fuck for 3D Panzer Corps II).

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Okay, I'll acquiesce to what you're saying, but let me state again that it's not about the cost of the game. It's the inability to generate or fund SMALL games that have the kind of new ideas and replayability that DoW had.

For example. Games like Hyper Light Drifter, The Long Dark, Dominions, Banner Saga. Smaller, definitely not Triple A titles--critically acclaimed, great mechanics regardless. Why can't we get that out of the 40k IP?

ALSO: Totes forgot to mention Blood Bowl, tally up another one for WHFB.

[Kot]

For example. Games like Hyper Light Drifter, The Long Dark, Dominions, Banner Saga. Smaller, definitely not Triple A titles--critically acclaimed, great mechanics regardless. Why can't we get that out of the 40k IP?

Hyper Light What? Dominions is niche as fuck, most people get thrown away by it being really user unfriendly, certainly less approachable than most of the games on Wh40k list. Maybe fun, maybe known, but not a lot of people actually play it. Banner Saga lost relevance pretty fast. Indie games, despite being all the rage ever since Minecraft, are still indie.

[ArchAIngel]

Like I said, ya I forgot to get Battlefleet Gothic on there. My B. But man you are VERY forgiving to a lot of those games. I'm not going to go back through the whole list again, but I'll just restate that basically The Original Dawn of War, Space Marine, and Battlefleet Gothic are basically the only good 40k games. (Also how dare you lump DoW III in there with the first two. So bad. Even the second one isn't great. The mechanics just aren't fun.)

It's not about big budget blockbusters--although it'd be nice to have one. It's the fact that it's all turn based strategy, mobile games with weak mechanics, card games, or tabletop simulators. Like I said, B games. This is the era of indie games and yet everything on that list is pretty much filler. You are very very forgiving on these games man. Everything is just "okay for what it is" or "decent", that's not good. That's run-of-the-mill. (we're just going to have to agree to disagree about Armageddon.)

There's just nothing NEW here. There isn't a game here that wows me or makes me wanna go play another 40k game. Even Space Marine was kinda eh in the story and acting. It was just fun to beat up Orks. Battlefleet Gothic is solid. A little content devoid, but hey.

OG Dawn of War was like *BOOM* heres all these armies (via expansions) look at all the explosions and death and blood splatters, turrets, bunkers, tanks, waves of infantry. It's pretty good. It's really not all that without Ultimate Apocalypse. And before you say something oh you can't hold this brand's bar up to the height of a 3rd-party modification, well let me tell you this, TONY STARK BUILT ULTIMATE APOCALYPSE IN A CAVE... WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS, Relic should have been able to make better sequels than II and III!

*Also yes, RIP the Space Marine sequel I was actually kind of hopeful for that.

EDIT: Also RIP Dark Millennium which could have been a cool MMO.

2 did let you play Fluffmarines, I'm willing to forgive a lot for that.


Well, until Retribution. *grumbles*


Still. Was fun to be reminded yes, this is why a squad of Space Marines showing up is considered a divine blessing from on high.


Angels of Death, indeed.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

-snarp-

I'm just saying it would be nice to see something new. Which is the cornerstone of why GWS is bad at managing their IP.

[Mech#4]

From the Extra Credit video, it's suggested that any hand Games Workshop has in the development of these games isn't on the game mechanics side, rather it's on ensuring truthfulness to the source material. I don't think any of the Warhammer or Warhammer 40,000 games I've seen have been discordant to the basic themes of these settings, regardless of the scores they've received on Steam. Even Dawn of War III looks like Warhammer 40,00 should.

"Eisenhorn: Xenos", made by the company Pixel Hero Games who have one other game listed called "Spiral Episode 1", even though it has a mixed rating on Steam, it still looks like Warhammer 40,000.
Likewise "Doomwheel" by Katsu Entertainment who's other listed game is one "Sausage Bomber", looks like Warhammer Fantasy.

Both of these games are also very focused on specific things in Games Workshop IP, Eisenhorn and the Skaven Doomwheel respectively. Doomwheel even has a 4.3/5 on Google Play as an Android app, that's pretty good for such a small company.


I'd suggest that games like Dawn of War III not succeeding aren't so much because of Games Workshop, but more because of a similar theme we see in other big game companies. Adding in mechanics that are present in leading video games with little regard as to how appropriate they are to their own game as a whole. Like when FPS had cover based shooting and regenerating health, or strategy games gearing towards competitive online play. Orcs Must Die: Unchained adding grind and in game currency or Sacred 3 being an arena fighter from a series of open world ARPGs.

[Tack]

I’d like to state that DoW “the OG” 1 was made at a time when the biggest competitors were BFME2 and C&C3

It was not “a breakout of creativity”. It was derivative as fuck.

Still hella fun, but I personally enjoyed DoW 2 and Chaos Rising more.
That co-op was amazing.

[Kot]

Even Dawn of War III looks like Warhammer 40,00 should.

No, lol, games that look like Warhammer 4000 would be like run-of-the-mill sci-fi games set in early solar system colonization era.

[nenjin]

DoW 1 was great because it was quality. It didn't break the mold. It didn't have to. All it needed were good (for its time) 40k models, race variety and unit, and decent flavor. And it hit all those notes. The cover system and terrain deformation were just icing on the cake. The issue to me is, as DoW games got prettier and more gameplay systems got thrown in to the mix (RPG leveling characters, a big gear system, "iconic" playable characters), all the other supporting details fell away. Cover system and terrain def? Poof. Race offerings? After several games, maybe. Unit offerings? They cribbed earlier game but the unit list got smaller and things became hero hammer in DoW 2.

Someone just needs to do a "Insert genre here" 40k game, and just make sure it's just quality. It would sell well. Stop trying to reshape things into a fucking e-sport. Pick a genre that actually supports the strengths of 40k instead of one that crushes it down in to trivial insignificance because you're not supposed to care about your minions in a MOBA despite them being goddamn space marines.

Just do a bloody Imperial Guard 40k FPS already, FFS.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Yea, also BFME2 was lit. Hella lit.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It's a shame there's precisely zero chance of making a quality RPG in CURRENT_YEAR, because I still want that Mass Effect/Witcher/Corpse Party Inquisitor game that everybody wants.

[LordBaal]

What we need is a Total Warhammer 40k
Land battles like a mixture of Dawn of War 1 and Company of Hero's but at a larger, larger scale and more elements.

Commando raids and special missions like Dawn of War II.

Space battles like Battlefleet Gothic: Armageddon

A strategic map like the Total War ones but where each planet gets it's own map where you move armies. And then there's the system/subsector map where you move fleets.

[90908]

What we need is a Total Warhammer 40k
Land battles like a mixture of Dawn of War 1 and Company of Hero's but at a larger, larger scale and more elements.

Commando raids and special missions like Dawn of War II.

Space battles like Battlefleet Gothic: Armageddon

A strategic map like the Total War ones but where each planet gets it's own map where you move armies. And then there's the system/subsector map where you move fleets.

Yes please, but with very different playstyles base on which faction your playing. I.G plays fairly conventionally, Space Marines conquer less and act more as support, Eldar just sort of fuck around until they get their win condition and Orks are actually everywhere, all the time.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Yes please, but with very different playstyles base on which faction your playing. I.G plays fairly conventionally, Space Marines conquer less and act more as support, Eldar just sort of fuck around until they get their win condition and Orks are actually everywhere, all the time.

DIGGANOBZ!!!

[LordBaal]

Yes please, but with very different playstyles base on which faction your playing. I.G plays fairly conventionally, Space Marines conquer less and act more as support, Eldar just sort of fuck around until they get their win condition and Orks are actually everywhere, all the time.

That would be a given! As tyranids you should have something like the hordes mechanics.
Ideally you should infiltrate a planet with agents that would trigger some commando stile missions. Then it would escalate to planetary total war once your hive fleet arrives.

Space marines should play like Chapter Master.

The guard would be more classical and so on.

Perhaps there should be a Imperium faction where some subfactions are AI or something or appear only in special missions.