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[Grim Portent]

That reminds me that I still need to write up an Ogryn archetype for the next time I run Black Crusade.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Ironically, 40k of all things seems to deny the idea that criminality is genetically influenced, because one of the stereotypes of Ogryns is a peaceful nature.

Personally, I always wanted to see a good example of a Ratling planet. They're said to be so nice that humans gradually lost most of their physicality there, but there aren't any actual canon examples because muh grimdark.

[Grim Portent]

Humans tend to avoid their planets because ratling society is more or less based on thievery. If you go to one you better have some guys with sharp eyes and shock mauls to keep your pockets safe or your dataslates and sidearms will be getting flogged for status and food in some flea market.

As I recall while ogryn gain status by being big and strong ratlings get it by being quick talkers and good at 'finding' things.

[nenjin]

Ironically, 40k of all things seems to deny the idea that criminality is genetically influenced, because one of the stereotypes of Ogryns is a peaceful nature.

Not sure I quite agree. Corruption of genetics, betrayal by genetics, genetics as influenced by nature determining behavior, these are all enduring themes in 40k. That a lot of them revolve around Xenos genetics doesn't really change that 40k does endorse the theme, as much as it unilaterally endorses any theme, of being a slave to you genetics. (And then breaking the chains of your slavery to be different if you're a main character.)

[Loud Whispers]

Ironically, 40k of all things seems to deny the idea that criminality is genetically influenced, because one of the stereotypes of Ogryns is a peaceful nature.

Personally, I always wanted to see a good example of a Ratling planet. They're said to be so nice that humans gradually lost most of their physicality there, but there aren't any actual canon examples because muh grimdark.

I don't know if Ogryns count though. Sure they were populated by 100% criminals but millennia of incest, radiation, bootleg alcohol, lead poisoning and good ol' selection pressure from the criminals being set loose amongst themselves, and you don't end with the same genetics you started with

Then there's the question of what exactly criminality even is in 40k. The legal system is a complete mess

[Teneb]

Ironically, 40k of all things seems to deny the idea that criminality is genetically influenced, because one of the stereotypes of Ogryns is a peaceful nature.

Personally, I always wanted to see a good example of a Ratling planet. They're said to be so nice that humans gradually lost most of their physicality there, but there aren't any actual canon examples because muh grimdark.

I don't know if Ogryns count though. Sure they were populated by 100% criminals but millennia of incest, radiation, bootleg alcohol, lead poisoning and good ol' selection pressure from the criminals being set loose amongst themselves, and you don't end with the same genetics you started with

Then there's the question of what exactly criminality even is in 40k. The legal system is a complete mess

Breathing is a crime, citizen. Please inform your future great-grandchildren that they may be prosecuted for your current infraction, on top of any previous and future infractions.

The Emperor protects.

[MrRoboto75]

Ironically, 40k of all things seems to deny the idea that criminality is genetically influenced, because one of the stereotypes of Ogryns is a peaceful nature.

Personally, I always wanted to see a good example of a Ratling planet. They're said to be so nice that humans gradually lost most of their physicality there, but there aren't any actual canon examples because muh grimdark.

I don't know if Ogryns count though. Sure they were populated by 100% criminals but millennia of incest, radiation, bootleg alcohol, lead poisoning and good ol' selection pressure from the criminals being set loose amongst themselves, and you don't end with the same genetics you started with

Then there's the question of what exactly criminality even is in 40k. The legal system is a complete mess

Ogryn Space-Australia

[Grim Portent]

The official stance of the Imperium is that criminality is not hereditary, there's no real trend of nobles and priests saying that gangers are criminals because they have bad genes. There might be such stigma on a planetary level, but it's not coming from the Imperial organisations themselves, except maybe in the Gaunt's Ghosts novels. Long history in 40k of all sorts of walks of life being important to the functioning of the Imperium, Mad Max style gangers make great guardsmen after all, even if you have to teach them not to wear people faces as masks.

Bad genes as a concept do sort of exist. One of the bits of 40k drawn from old medieval superstitions is the assumption that those born deformed/disabled are spiritually corrupt and are being punished for something they did in a past life or will do in this life or are a punishment on their family. So a mutant is assumed to be bad because it's a mutant and there must be a reason it's a mutant, so it must be getting punished by the Emperor. Alternatively it's assumed that if you have a mutant child that you must have done something wrong to deserve having such a thing.

Since mutation in 40k comes from a number of sources including simple chemical pollution and inbreeding this is generally bunk, but it drives even minor mutants to lives of crime and heresy because normal society throws stuff at them and lynches them when things go slightly bad.

Beastmen suffer the same stigma because of their inhuman appearance, which led to puritans declaring that they were obviously corrupt because otherwise they wouldn't look so monstrous.

[Mech#4]

It'd also be because any deformity may be a sign of chaos corruption and the Imperium can ill afford to let those things go unchecked. Or even Genestealer cults where hybrid people are born who look basically human except for a slight tinge of their skin colour or small ridges on their foreheads.

[Grim Portent]

Well yes but most citizens don't know about those, beyond a vague knowledge that there are enemies out there somewhere most of them don't know anything much about the wider galaxy and it's races. To the average shopkeeper or factory worker the reason Jekos has giant watery eyes that glow in the dark and are hurt by lights is because his mother badmouthed the local priest behind his back, and the noble's have twisted scions locked behind forbidden doors because they think themselves better than Him on Terra.

Abritrators probably know more than most, because it's partly their job to know more about the threats to the Imperium that can lurk within it, but I doubt many of them actually understand why mutants are mutants or the real significance of it. Priests would be similar, told to watch out for  physical signs of spiritual corruption but not told why beyond some vague platitudes and sermons from higher ranking clergy.

I think the official treatment of mutants given in Dark Heresy was spiteful tolerance of the less mutated, they were used as slaves or low level menials by their communities and scape goats for whenever things went missing or anything else bad happened, but more mutated specimens were driven out to the edges of society or killed outright. Self sustaining populations were either enslaved as a group like on Tranch or periodically culled, or both.

It would actually be kinda neat to see a BL novel focused on non-Chaos aligned mutants living in the Imperium. A fall to darkness type story perhaps, with a minor mutant born to a poor family growing up mistreated and belittled even as he tries to be helpful until he runs away, falls in with a gang of underhive mutants, gradually becomes more embittered and evil and ultimately becomes a minor chaos champion during a rebellion as he embraces his mutant nature and gives into it.

[pisskop]

So when they monitor the genetic material of the nobility they arent looking for anything but non-human deviation and/or sudden mutation?

[Egan_BW]

I like how you started with "non-chaos aligned" and ended with "minor chaos champion".

[nenjin]

So when they monitor the genetic material of the nobility they arent looking for anything but non-human deviation and/or sudden mutation?

Even that can be considered "acceptable" depending on who you are/who you're connected to. Navigators get forgiven a lot of mutations due to the one mutation that is of use to the Imperium.

As another example, in the Souldrinkers series, it starts out with a noble family who owns a space station. Generations of inbreeding and general evil-doery have resulted in one of them being infantilized (she's like 80 but looks like a 12 year old girl and is evil as shit) and I think her brother is either an imbecile or monstrous, I can't remember which. Still technically 40k nobility up until the point the Souldrinkers revealed their corruption and malfeasance.

I also seem to recall that the Cognitae from Eisenhorn novels has a genetic bent related to their evil-doery.

It would actually be kinda neat to see a BL novel focused on non-Chaos aligned mutants living in the Imperium.

I think the only author who has come close to this is Abnett. He's written a bit about "Twist" culture and has a few twist characters. Not a novel focused on them but he's written them as actual characters rather than gun fodder for Space Marines and Imperial Guard. Apparently in 40k, to him, techno is twist music.

[Grim Portent]

The only groups I can think of who monitor noble genetics regularly are the nobles themselves and one of the branches of the Adepta Sororitas*, both doing it primarily to try and work out better marriages for the purpose of producing healthy children with good qualities. Mutants among the nobles tend to get a relatively easy life as such things go, get thrown into the lower hives or get purged as a public show of piety if the family doesn't think having birthed a mutant child at all will ruin their reputation too much.

Established nobles basically never get tested for purity, no one has the authority to do it without getting a few thousand hired killers chasing them, even Inquisitors have to be careful unless they're Karamazov type lunatics with no subtlety. Just questioning the purity of most nobles will have them challenging you to a duel or trying to have you murdered, and would be a political faux pas anyway. If a planet has a major chaos/genestealer incident and enough nobles are openly involved the rest will be scrutinised, but otherwise they more or less get ignored except when the Imperium needs to butter them up to get stuff from their planet or they do something blatantly wrong.


*The Space Nun Nannies branch more or less. I forget their name, but in the RPGs their purpose was to teach the scions of noble houses and secretly try to push them in the direction the Ecclesiarchy desired. This involved genetic monitoring, propoganda as lessons and arranged marriages with little thought to the desires of the actual people involved.

I like how you started with "non-chaos aligned" and ended with "minor chaos champion".

Up until the last few chapters they would be non-chaos aligned, but there aren't many things you can do with 'and then he was a tribal gangster living among other mutated people until a wandering cave monster ate them all. The End.' Having the first chapter be how lightly mutated people are treated, then a few chapters of underhive mutant society and building tension leading up to a climax of secular rebellion leading into chaos corruption and then either a tragic reflective death or a start of darkness foreboding ending.

[sprinkled chariot]

Valhallan ice warrior brand tactic is, that you can not to care about your own troops enough to shoot enemy they currently engage in melee, in expense of chance of hitting own troops.
#guardsmanlifesmatter

Also there is SEND IN MORE MEN order for drowning enemies of emperor in corpses. (Captain Chenkov tier memery)

and CRUSH THEM UNDER TRACKS order for baneblades