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[Urist McScoopbeard]

sounds like grim-half-light to me.

[Kot]

Nah, it's more like Noblegrim to a degree. The world still sucks, but what heroes do actually matters.

[misko27]

Nobledark, you mean. It's Noble/Grim and Bright/Dark.

Noble/Grim are about heroes. Can heroism work? Are heroes changing the world, or just drops in the bucket raging against the machine? "Nobility" refers to the nobility of heroes (and villains!). It's not necessarily the case the everything is great: if the "Noble" refers entirely to evil people, it could be a pretty shitty world. But in Warhammer 40k for several millenia, even absolutely massive, huge-ass heroes can give every thing they can and it just won't matter. A spacemarine is a god relative to humanity, but there are millions of them! And they can't save the imperium! And think about Warhammer videogames where a villain wants to blow up the planet: it's incredibly telling that a video game is allowed to invent and just *blow up* an entire planet depending on a player's actions, because the destruction of an entire planet is just,  a drop in the bucket. Destroyed a Forge World, demons? We have reserves. Basically in a noble universe, heroes have the ability to change the entire setting if they are good/evil/strong/fast/willful/noble enough. Grim says "This is life! Is it awesome? Does it suck? Doesn't matter! Forces beyond anyone's control are all that matter."

Bright/Dark are more about the setting as a whole. A bright world is full of wonder, technology, advancements, all that jazz. Healing is possible, resurrection may be possible in the setting (and resurrection without drawbacks like losing your soul). Society advances. Perhaps there's some type of golden age going on. Dark worlds are the opposite: life is poor, grey, rusting, and unimpressive. If you lose an arm, your not getting it back without sacrifice. People don't go on adventure for the sake of adventure, and there's not that much you would want to go see and do anyway. Life is Hobbesian: poor, brutish, nasty, and short. Perhaps the world is sinking into some sort of dark age as well; it's not only that things suck, but maybe it didn't always suck either. Imagine LoTR's universe: all sorts of wonderful amazing things used to exist, and now the world is just so much colder and grey.

If heroes actually can change anything, new warhammer 40 is nobledark. If not, GRIMDARK.

EDIT: Speaking of BRIGHT, I noticed TotalBiscuit did his thing on Dawn of War 3. He's a massive warhammer fanboy, so apparently he broke some sort of embargo he had on SEGA or something to do the review. He's not impressed. He doesn't buy into the whole MOBA thing, but he's pretty damn critical.

[TempAcc]

I hope they don't shift the game into something more focused on hero units, because that is something a large part of the people that actualy play 40k dislike a fair bit, and the setting itself seems to be moving more towards that nowadays. Herohammer would make people quite disgruntled. I can understand how heroic figures and such are important as engines to drive the plot forwards, but shoehorning them into the actual game and making them too important in the meta, to the point that people are forced to design strats around them rather than just your regular army lists will get quite a few heads turned around.

[Grim Portent]

It could stand to swing a lot more towards hero units. As is Chaos Lords, Chapter Masters and the like are only useful in gimmick lists based around deathstars. A Daemon Prince, veteran of ten thousand years of war and chosen servant of one of the gods of Chaos, can be taken out by half his points of infantry pretty easily, or by a few space marine bikers even more easily.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm pretty opposed to "Hero Warhammer" on a plot level as well. Some of you might remember I've made a fair few posts on society in the Imperium and Chaos which are mostly centered around going from "album cover" to "actual society". I am very much more interested in the FFG-style "Pragmatic Warhammer", in large part because it describes settings and conflicts that don't make me seethe with indignation at how utterly stupid they are.

That's GW for you. Maybe they won't fuck it up.

[Dorsidwarf]

It could stand to swing a lot more towards hero units. As is Chaos Lords, Chapter Masters and the like are only useful in gimmick lists based around deathstars. A Daemon Prince, veteran of ten thousand years of war and chosen servant of one of the gods of Chaos, can be taken out by half his points of infantry pretty easily, or by a few space marine bikers even more easily.

As an Imperial Guard player, the faction literally all about smothering ancient and indomitable evils under unending waves of mortal men. (Or just lots of really big guns) I sure hope not because the guard will eat shit and crumple if CQC PRIMARCHS AND CHAPTER MASTERS ONLY becomes the new core of the game. Even the most expensive and toughest guard heroes are average by SM standards

I just don't see how guard can exist as a standalone army if the game shifts back to heroes.

[Kot]

Tanks.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Of course! We'll drown Girlyman with our excess Baneblades! It's genius!

But...where will we get a swimming pool that large?! ...I bet Trazyn has one...

[Kot]

Trazyn now deals in Pokemon.
Universe-rules bending Pokemon like Creed.

[TempAcc]

I still want trazyn/necrons to show up in alfabusa's TSD to the sound of mummies alive.

[Grim Portent]

It could stand to swing a lot more towards hero units. As is Chaos Lords, Chapter Masters and the like are only useful in gimmick lists based around deathstars. A Daemon Prince, veteran of ten thousand years of war and chosen servant of one of the gods of Chaos, can be taken out by half his points of infantry pretty easily, or by a few space marine bikers even more easily.

As an Imperial Guard player, the faction literally all about smothering ancient and indomitable evils under unending waves of mortal men. (Or just lots of really big guns) I sure hope not because the guard will eat shit and crumple if CQC PRIMARCHS AND CHAPTER MASTERS ONLY becomes the new core of the game. Even the most expensive and toughest guard heroes are average by SM standards

I just don't see how guard can exist as a standalone army if the game shifts back to heroes.

Guard already eat shit and crumple, and have done for 2 editions now, and before that the guard were still shit, the Chimera transports were just good. They have no answer to Thunderwolves, or Windriders, or any of a number of things used by the better armies in the game. World Eaters, Death Guard, White Scars, Craftworld Eldar, Ynnead Eldar, Flyrants, Decurion Necrons, almost any Space Marines in the Gladius, Space Wolves Wulfen or Thunderwolves, Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard, Cult Mechanicus, Skitarii, and a few other things all walk all over the standard guard army with ease.

I have no problem with something like a Chaos Lord being able to get gunned down, but it shouldn't be easy. I'm not even sure it should be possible to do it in one turn. These are beings who are supposed to make mortal mens guts burn like fire and their eyes bleed when they look at them and corruption begins to seep in through the eyes, and yet they get gunned down by a few lasguns? In the fluff these guys walk up to fortress walls and no one shoots them because no one can muster the will to do so in the face of such potent corruption, but in tabletop literally anyone can plink them to death with a laspistol.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

inb4, we have an action-adventure stealth game about Roboute Guilliman inflitrating a Chaos compound to kill Abaddon.

"Eagle, try to remember the basics of CQC..."

"Abaddon!? ... You're that Ninja!"

[MrRoboto75]

What sort of ninja has no arms

[TempAcc]

Well...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)