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[Teneb]

Other stuff is totally new, but frankly, if a mod team can do it--a dev team should be doubly capable. So in fact, I can and will judge new installments of DoW based on the Ultimate DoW experience. DoW3 is a pretty poor incarnation that takes the series in a direction that is just bleh.

I do agree that I find DoW3 unappealing, but that is not the point I'm trying to make: DoW has never been developed as a game where massive armies clash. It is pretty nice that you can mod that in, but it was never the point. So DoW3 being about skirmishes seems like the logical conclusion. What I dislike is them clumsily welding MOBA wincons into the Company of Heroes formula.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

I can agree to that. However, let me ALSO note that CoH could get quite large on 4 v 4s, it can almost be described as operational rather than tactical. Is it really so much to ask for a 40k game to have massive armies clashing? I mean, is that not one of the centerpieces of the setting?

[Ghazkull]

Other stuff is totally new, but frankly, if a mod team can do it--a dev team should be doubly capable. So in fact, I can and will judge new installments of DoW based on the Ultimate DoW experience. DoW3 is a pretty poor incarnation that takes the series in a direction that is just bleh.

I do agree that I find DoW3 unappealing, but that is not the point I'm trying to make: DoW has never been developed as a game where massive armies clash. It is pretty nice that you can mod that in, but it was never the point. So DoW3 being about skirmishes seems like the logical conclusion. What I dislike is them clumsily welding MOBA wincons into the Company of Heroes formula.

Have to disagree here Teneb, if you look at Dawn of War 1 battle got pretty massive, especially with Imperial Guard and Orks bringing in the numbers.

[Tack]

Psychic Phase

Mortal Wounds

[sprinkled chariot]

Is there any fluff on being part of the crew of heretical ships?
How does it go?
Do heretics have problems with warp travel? Like do they need gellar fields?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The crew of a Chaos ship are only marginally more impressed than that of an Imperial ship. You've still got the standard fare of generations of tribal shipmen doing the brunt of the work for whatever group the ship is meant to serve, just with more human sacrifice, and to the Ruinous Power instead of the Emperor. I'd say they probably have better tolerance of mutants, but shipmen are typically riddled with mutants even on Imperial craft.

Most heretics will still use gellar fields. Not using them is suicidal, as you will still be attacked by warp predators even if you worship Chaos. At best, your devotion might get you the protection of one kind of daemons and the corresponding hatred of another.

There are only two exceptions to this that stand out. The first, Daemonships, are giant living warp predators anyway and so don't need or want a gellar field. The second is the more devoted kind of Chaos Space Marine. They have the will and the form to stay alive alongside (or inside, in the case of the Possessed) the warp. But even most CSM aren't that kind of crazy, so you'd expect to see it most among Word Bearer fanatics and the like.

[nenjin]

I can agree to that. However, let me ALSO note that CoH could get quite large on 4 v 4s, it can almost be described as operational rather than tactical. Is it really so much to ask for a 40k game to have massive armies clashing? I mean, is that not one of the centerpieces of the setting?

Company of Heroes is honestly the model for my ideal 40K RTS. DoW was close but it was hampered by non-destructible terrain, rather boring map topography and larger sized units with gave everything a very "chunky" feel.

CoH though....may it just worked on so many levels, the feel of the battlefield and the arrangement of your troops. Between the map sizes, cover, terrain and destructible bits, it all just felt like it went together. (Only downside was shots clipping through damn near everything.)

It's sad the lead dev on CoH died in a car accident. Every Relic game since then has been worse and less inspired than the last.

[Kot]

What I disliked in DoWs, is artillery never really felt powerful there, while CoH gives you PTSD. Yes, I did play mostly British and SUPERCHARGE SUPERCHARGE ALL ALL FIRE my way through the game, I'm that kind of a person.

[nenjin]

What I disliked in DoWs, is artillery never really felt powerful there, while CoH gives you PTSD. Yes, I did play mostly British and SUPERCHARGE SUPERCHARGE ALL ALL FIRE my way through the game, I'm that kind of a person.

Artillery in CoH was the most glorious thing ever. I remember once I rigged up 3 howitzers and pounded a hole so deep into the ground that tanks would catch air when they drove over it.

Haven't ever had that level of satisfaction in an RTS game since, not even DoW 1.

[sprinkled chariot]

Basilisks were pretty horrifying : their range was truly insane, they used to fire one shell each 5 seconds before they got nerfed in some later patch, they had special snowflake SEISMIC SHELLS STRAIGHT FROM MARTIAN FORGES, which just obliterated everything it hit. It was even more terrific in asassination mode, when game over condition was losing your commander, and if you play against imperial guard you have to hide your dude from vindicare and basilisk with seismo shell in the same time. 
Ah, and those sweet moments, when all forces of tau player are demoralised, because ethereal and his bodyguards turned into pool of blood.

[Retropunch]

Is there any fluff on being part of the crew of heretical ships?
How does it go?
Do heretics have problems with warp travel? Like do they need gellar fields?

There's a lot about that in the Night Lords book trilogy. The second one especially deals with it in a more 'everyday life of a crewman' way.

From what I remember, the higher up crew are given 'talismans' of certain chaos marines which protect them from the more predatory marines/whatever else infests the ships. Not sure about Gellar field stuff, but the books are interesting enough if you're wanting to know more about that.

[pisskop]

Being part of a chaos ship would likely be fairly normal, except for the more blood sacrifices and demon sperm whales.

I think it would be a lot like a gang.  or prison without guards.  Well, the guards are just really buff prisoners.


  a society built upon strength and group violence.

[nenjin]

As usual it cuts multiple ways.

Some use Geller Fields.
Some use Warp Sorcery.
Some roll in unprotected by anything but their devotion to the Chaos Gods. (I seem to recall this is a Word Bearer thing, and no, I don't mean the Gol Vorbak and the HH stuff.)

The last one mechanically doesn't really jive with generally accepted Warp Lore, but, ya know, the rule of cool.

Crew members are generally slaves taken on raids, vat-grown humans or "cultists" for lack of a better term. Chaos ships have their own ecosystem of human crew just like Imperial ships, their lives are just that much more brutal and F'd up compared to Imperial crews. Generations of crew members breeding, raising their children with a belief in Chaos and the power of their CSM overlords, etc...Many actually worship the ship rather than the CSM who own it, especially if said ship is daemon possessed. Many crew members on Chaos ships have never even laid eyes on the masters they serve.

[nenjin]

So between all the Eternal Crusade I've been playing and friends wanting me to get the Rogue Trader campaign started back up, I've been up to my eyeballs in 40k lately.

I figured I'd continue the trend. For one, I'm installing Ultimate Apocalypse because I constantly hear how great it is, and with DoW 3 out I figure if I'm not going to be playing that, I should play what's said to be legendary.

Secondly, I downloaded Legacy of Dorn: Herald of Oblivion off Steam for $5. It's a CYOA game book where you play an Imperial Fist of the 1st Company in Terminator Armor, and you're teleported to the Space Hulk Herald of Oblivion for good times and whacky hi-jinks. For the price it's pretty decent actually. The writing's not bad, it gets 40k, and it has a cute little combat system with ranged/melee options and gear to find. It's pretty flavorful in that you have a stat called Purity that is basically the measure of how righteous a space marine you are. Certain decisions in the story will either gain you purity or lose it, and when sht hits the fan...well...let's just say you want to be lookin' righteous in the eyes of the Emperor. Anyone decently versed in Space Marine lore can pretty easily infer what the Space Marine-y thing to do should be.

If I have one gripe with it, it's that:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You seem to not be able to beat it unless you did a specific thing in the middle of story, which I kinda dislike because when you've beaten 90% of a game book and the win condition is somewhere in the middle of it, it's kind of like forcing you to play through it several times just to finish. The game is such that you can't just endlessly cheat and back track unless you play baby difficulty mode, too.

[Loud Whispers]

Pretty much how the administratum works