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[Neonivek]

How about a lot of their DLC are products of them rushing the game out early and then selling the later sections that were intended to be in the main game as other DLC?

Either that or they hilariously left gaps in to fill with DLC... a strategy I loathe... What are they Kalypso? Paradox? Get this out of here!

I think that's a silly argument. WTW 1 has a larger campaign map than most other total war games, period.
If you got them to put all three together and sell it as a single game, it would require a $300 price tag to pay for the development. Which nobody would pay, and then the company would go bankrupt.

Personally I think the reason they are doing it might be because their DLC sales are tanking and are hoping to get a lot of initial sales. It would be a proper use for standalone expansions, but I think advertising it as a sequel is pure marketing cheese at its finest.

Then again... given most standalone expansions are used as a way to... not make a sequel... and not make an expansion... This is a better move then most of the times I see it (once again... ASSUMING it is an actual standalone expansion)

Then again this also wouldn't be the first time they made a "same engine" sequel that uses a lot of the same assets... but I thought WTW did decently enough that they wouldn't need to do that.

Edit: NEVERMIND!!! Warhammer Total War... did badly... Especially for a game that was likely more expensive than the others.

[Tack]

As long as they don't go full Dawn of War 1 with the "oh, our engine doesn't actually support models with more than two arms so no tyranids ever"

[Digital Hellhound]

Guys, we have a thread for Total Warhammer. If you want to rant about it, at least rant in the right place.

[Neonivek]

Guys, we have a thread for Total Warhammer. If you want to rant about it, at least rant in the right place.

No one is ranting about it.

All of those are features.

As long as they don't go full Dawn of War 1 with the "oh, our engine doesn't actually support models with more than two arms so no tyranids ever"

That sounds hilarious and... well...

It reminds me of Neverwinter Nights... and the Dragons WERE too big for the engine (yes really). So they created a work around by basically making them in pieces.

[Tack]

... truth. Not even the right setting.
I believe this started as someone denouncing GW selling to "shitty developers"
Sadly everyone other than the two I mentioned I'd probably have to agree with.

Cyanide made blood bowl which is great, but they still have been known in the past not to give much thought to audience feedback.

[Neonivek]

I mean to an extent it is important to have artistic integrity and not bending to the whims of your audience is an important recipe in that.

Though both extremes aren't particularly favorable...

Though it is uncommon to get an example of something ending up worse because they got a lot of people's opinions and went with that instead of sticking with the artist's guns (Alien 3), but it isn't unheard of. At least less uncommon to hear of a company just consistently and frequently misread and ignore their audience.

[tonnot98]

hey guys i just bought a bunch of models to give myself something to paint, and maybe play sometime in the future. Though for the meantime, they're mostly going to serve as paperweights and extras in my D&D games.

What good is 19 ork boys, 32 grots, and a warboss against the world? I would've bought a trukk and/or a kan to go with them because I read that no vehicles = bad, but I figured that a good start (52 models!) to the green tide is a tide of green. And buying a vehicle now would've made me go overbudget as well.

[Tack]

The sad news is that an actual green tide (speshul formation) has all orcs and no gretchin.

Are there any nobs with those boys or runt-erds with those grots?.


In other News (new Warhammer 40k rules changes)

I am personally not okay with a lot of it.

[tonnot98]

No nobs or herders, I figure I should get those when I'm somewhere near done painting the models. Also, I was unaware of any special formations or anything. 32 grots should come in handy if the orks need some "live ammo" however...

[ArchAIngel]

The sad news is that an actual green tide (speshul formation) has all orcs and no gretchin.

Are there any nobs with those boys or runt-erds with those grots?.


In other News (new Warhammer 40k rules changes)

I am personally not okay with a lot of it.

So, as someone who knows very little of tabletop anything, what does this mean?


Because it seems to be just simplifying the system.

[pisskop]

well i too am no tabletop nerd ....

but i mean charging units gain initiative is ass imo.  plenty of units should be capable of first strike on defense.

'dozens of wounds' means lots of tedious tracking, and 'light vehicles being statlined as if infantry' sounds like the logic of somebody who has never played or wanted a nuanced game of strats.


yea i see a lot of simplification in these ideas over what i do know is in the game, but its taking out rules and strats a player learns  prior to play to crap that can be lifted out of a condensed book during play


now thats not bad in of itself, but it does tedium up the game.   WH40k, have you met my ... acquaintance ... Skyrim yet?

[nenjin]

Are they doing away with vehicle crits, AP, Pen and all that stuff? On the one hand, good I guess? On the other, having one big generic system for everything sounds a little boring (as a 2nd edition fan). "Making the profile work harder" so units stand out from each other more also sounds good on the surface, but it all comes down to balance....

I'm guessing most of this is motivated by Primarchs now needing to be a thing on the battlefield. Still, it sort of sounds like the transition D&D 2.5 Ed made to 3.0 and beyond; stripping out a lot of the unique rules in favor of a unified system that's easier to compare and book keep, and that is extensible upwards rather than hitting a cap.

[Tack]

Sounds like facing and all are going away.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Also:

They actively shop out their IP to the worst possible developers.

I am a moderate fanboy of Creative Assembly, and an ex-fanboy of Relic, so I take exception to that assertion.

Okay. First of all. Total Warhammer is an incomplete game. The fact that Total Warhammer 2 is already coming out is some BS. In terms of CA, Total War has been going down hill since Shogun 2 IMO. In terms of GWS giving CA the license, it's been their best move since Space Marine. I support it entirely. However, I was specifically referring the 40k IP. 40k and WHFB are very separate IPs, I feel like those who haven't been exposed to GWS all that much probably don't even know WHFB exists. Except maybe through Blood Bowl.

Second. Relic is the reanimated corpse of your best friend. It's not your friend any more. It's not a person any more. It's an evil ghoulish creature brought back to life by the siren song of your wallet. DoW3 is complete and utter rubbish, and frankly other than The Last Stand, DoW is a downright bad series past the original incarnation. DoW3 gets the look and feel of 40k all wrong, and it's just not a strategy game as those who grew up with actually strategy games know them.

Sorry to come in so late with this, but I hadn't checked the thread for a while.

[Rolan7]

and frankly other than The Last Stand, DoW is a downright bad series past the original incarnation.

Pff okay hold on.
So original Dawn of War is good - and I assume you mean Dark Crusade, probably discounting Soulstorm, because that's the normal stance and you were vague.  Maybe I'm wrong.
But then you specifically like The Last Stand!?
AKA take several "heroes" from VERY disparate factions and have them face off against countless hordes?
That doesn't seem lore-friendly whatsoever, from what I've seen.
It's cool nonsense, which is exactly why DoW2 is pretty great, at least in single player.

The Last Stand is still nonsense.  Just, very fun nonsense, just as Left 4 Dead is nonsense.
Nonsense can be fun.  But I don't get why you would attack DoW 2 and 3.  DoW 1 even has marines dying in ridiculous numbers, as expendable troops.
Edit:  Which is ridiculous, they are Space Marines, but DoW1 treats them as pretty close to imperial guard (particularly if the IG have grenade launchers, which send ASTARTES POWER ARMORED SPACE MARINES flying across the map, for massive stun)