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[Grim Portent]

I love the actual tabletop discussion, but I have to ask if you don't mind...  Who are WE?

World Eaters.

All the traitor legions got rules recently and WE went from being one of the worst ways to play Chaos Marines to one of the 3 best ways to play them along with the Alpha Legion and the Deathguard, with which is best depending on your opponent and the rules for scoring.


World Eaters basically got a huge buff to all their assault units, everyone ignores morale tests and hits harder when they charge, if taken in a special army build they also get a free move at the start of the game and can reroll charge tests. This basically negated any need for transports, which Chaos lack in any good form, and enabled turn 1 charges for the faster units.

Death Guard became nigh invincible. A standard DG marine is harder to kill than a Necron Warrior and costs about the same points. All their stuff ignores morale, has a feel no pain save in addition to their armour and can move and shoot heavy weapons with no penalties. In their special build they get to reroll feel no pain saves of a 1 and get a bonus to their cover saves, so they become even harder to kill than normal.

Alpha Legion get to deploy all over the board as long as the enemy has no units within 18" of them, or 12" if they can't draw line of sight. They basically get to start with full board control. Like the others they have a special build, but it's not actually all that great for them because it mostly buffs cultists, who are now pretty bad compared to the buffed up marines.

Those 3 are now the top tier Chaos armies, with the exception of some Daemon shenanigans like the screamerstar or the houndstar, which use psychic powers and relics to buff a big unit of either Screamers of Tzeentch or Flesh Hounds of Khorne into almost unkillable assault monsters.

[Tack]

... And I personally don't mind you asking at all.

Bikers/raptors are still way better than normal WE marines, but next to Alpha Legion and Deathguard WE have the best support for the basic slave to darkness.

Are you saying that Bikers/Raptors are better than zerks, or CSMs?
I don't really see the point of raptors except as a meltadrop or in a Night Lords army.

Also I recall that at least one of the WE detatchments give furious charge which kind of invalidates the banner?

On the topic of Ksons though I'm kind of keen to run nothing but 9 exalted sorcerers as an army.
... They'll get tabled and quickly. But it would be fun to roll 20-30 psychic power dice.

[Rolan7]

Fascinating!  So the WE are highly mobile assault-monsters, and the Alpha Legion are just as duplicitous in battle as they are in fluff (it's like they're all infiltrators, I guess!  At least first-turn).
Thanks for the explanations (:

[Grim Portent]

... And I personally don't mind you asking at all.

Bikers/raptors are still way better than normal WE marines, but next to Alpha Legion and Deathguard WE have the best support for the basic slave to darkness.

Are you saying that Bikers/Raptors are better than zerks, or CSMs?
I don't really see the point of raptors except as a meltadrop or in a Night Lords army.

Also I recall that at least one of the WE detatchments give furious charge which kind of invalidates the banner?

On the topic of Ksons though I'm kind of keen to run nothing but 9 exalted sorcerers as an army.
... They'll get tabled and quickly. But it would be fun to roll 20-30 psychic power dice.

Bikers and Raptors are better than both 'zerkers and CSM in a WE force. Since all WE are identical to 'zerks except with one less WS there's no points in paying 4 extra points for Berzerkers, and WE Raptors cost the same as Berzerkers while moving twice as fast.

The WE rules give every VotLW unit Furious Charge and Fearless, the detachment then gives them rerolls to charge and free movement, so you get half the icon benefit from the legion and the other half from the detachment. So bikers become better than Berzerkers in every way, Raptors become faster Berzerkers and normal marines become cheaper Berzerkers.


I actually have run a 2500 point army that was 9 Exalted Sorcs on Disc and Ahriman on Disc in the Ahriman's Exiles formation. They're tougher than you'd think and can push out a lot of psychic powers in one turn. If they get the right mix of buffs they become almost unkillable, mine were T5 3+ 2++ rr1s FnP 4+ and only being hit on 6s for most turns, and the biomancer has Iron Arm and they all of course had Force. In theory I could have made them T6 if I rolled on the Heretech discipline, but I was against Tyranids and felt it was a waste of powers.

Fascinating!  So the WE are highly mobile assault-monsters, and the Alpha Legion are just as duplicitous in battle as they are in fluff (it's like they're all infiltrators, I guess!  At least first-turn).
Thanks for the explanations (:

WEs are basically a headlong rush towards the enemy army, once the game starts they're no more mobile than anyone, but they still hit like a truck in combat.

AL are the masters of board control, they start on multiple objectives and in several good pieces of cover, and their reinforcements come in from the flanks. In the Horus Heresy rules they get some similar gimmicks but have some really neat powers to show off their infiltration of the other Legions, in that they can take other legions unique units, like the elite terminators of the Iron Warriors or the elite guards of Ultramar.

[TempAcc]

Oh man, ever since alfabusa made the 3 custodes into pillar men analogies, complete with the glorious theme, I've been hoping a mechanicus or krieger with prosthetics based on Stroheim shows up and screams IMPERIAL SCIENCE IS THE BEST IN THE GALAXY while Stroheim's theme plays.

[pisskop]

is it a good or bad thing that stroheim would be considered a paragon of virtue in  40k?

he, ahh, actually didnt do all that much asskickin in jba.

[Kot]

SKITARII SAVE THE DAY!

[Andres]

Who would win in a fight, a Space Marine chapter or the Dark Elves?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

A chapter of Astartes stranded in Warhammer Fantasy would rapidly decimate or conquer every faction present including the Dark Elves, exempting the corrupting rot of Chaos and its moste horibel Daemons.

On the bright side, most of the nonhuman races have better than average odds on being assumed abhumans and spared extermination.

That was what you meant, right? 

[pisskop]

Astartes would only Kick Names and Take Ass until the ammp dried up, no?

after that theyre just really fast guys with obvious weak points in armor for high damage or AP weapons?


orks are still orks and adamantine is still dwarven runesmithed and undead dragons are still heavy and ogres are still strong as ogryms, right?  A SM is still going to have to jump in order to brush the bottom of a giants knee and dragonfire is still extra crispy and a demonenegine fired by a Yiddish man will fuck yo shit up, rite?  plus what exactly would warpstone do to armor/SMs?

 I mean, smart headcannon says theyll end up in a human controlled area.
  and that theyll.make their was likely to the empire or Cathy, rite?  Cathay is supposed to be pretty epic under all that mystery isnt it?  super sorceries and ancient emperors and w.e.


p:


plus, magic.  no, psykers arent 'like mages' in any way but that they cause shit to happen.  is their any real way to compare magical effects on 40k stuff or vice versa?

ohh no, WHF is much too grimdark (grimbright?) for SMs to have instawin  buttons

[Andres]

A full Space Marine chapter shows up with their full power - battlebarges and drop pods and whatnot - and attack the Dark Elves.

[Tack]

Ammo... Yes.
But if power swords and axes and whatnot kept their sick edges, they'd still mess up most things, and I'm not sure you can compare the armor of a warrior of chaos with the armor of a space marine.

Also, this is a chapter, which means vehicles and dreadnoughts and techmarines and apothecaries.
They'll go to the empire, do a big 'Oh yes your 'Sigmar' is actually 'the Emperor' and he died for our sins', and then start teching up the Empire proper fast, along with requisitioning some humans to get that delicious geneseed population happening again.

Suddenly S4 T4 I4 empire greatswords. Goodbye dark eldar.


(Of course that's if they land in the old world. If they land on Naggaroth, that'll be even faster (but also will likely use up all of the ammo)

[Xantalos]

A full Space Marine chapter shows up with their full power - battlebarges and drop pods and whatnot - and attack the Dark Elves.

Impossible to say, really. They could theoretically collapse Druuchi society by ganking Malekith, or the dark elves might pull victory out of their asses, or the Slaan might just blow up their battle barge as soon as it enters orbit. Way too many variables to say how it plays out.

[Rolan7]

A full Space Marine chapter shows up with their full power - battlebarges and drop pods and whatnot - and attack the Dark Elves.

As for the Dark Eldar, you might be interested in this incident if you aren't already familiar:  http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Commorragh_Raid
I don't really know enough to answer, but since they're Eldar, they probably know the SM are coming and could lay effective traps.  I'm pretty sure they'd need to, to win.  Of course they could scatter, but I think that would considerably weaken them (they'd lose a whole lot of slaves I assume).

[MetalSlimeHunt]

A full Space Marine chapter shows up with their full power - battlebarges and drop pods and whatnot - and attack the Dark Elves.

Impossible to say, really. They could theoretically collapse Druuchi society by ganking Malekith, or the dark elves might pull victory out of their asses, or the Slaan might just blow up their battle barge as soon as it enters orbit. Way too many variables to say how it plays out.

Elven sorcerers and Slaan are serious threats no matter the tech level, but the former I think would fall anyway. Space Marines are familiar with fighting the psychically powerful and have Librarians, and more importantly all three types of elves have their really good sorcerers concentrated at the top, doubly so for the dark elves.

As for the Slaan, you're thinking too much like a dirty human. The only threat to have emerged that caused a direct correlation of Slaan awakening was the imminent destruction of the entire planet via warpstorm meteors. Everything else it's just a tossup, who knows what the Old Ones told those crazy frogs.

But yes, in terms of recruitment:

Humans obviously get educated on Our Glorious Emperor
Halflings and Dwarfs 99% get recorded as abhumans and are made to feel bad for the sin of being born.
Wood Elves have a chance of being called abhuman until the whole tree thing comes out.
High Elves get exterminated like the wytch assponces they are.
Dark Elf peasants might have the best chance of being abhuman of the elves, they're kind of terrorized by the magic wielders and some might crave some Emperor distant oppression over Malekith's very immediate and painful oppression. 
Ogres maybe...? They look a lot like Ogryns even if they're much, much less...stable. Might go to the effort if there's a Magos Biologos around to figure out they dissolve Chaos and Just Imagine The Possibilities!
Very low chance of going anywhere with the beastmen, no matter what 3rd edition says.
"Even in this blasted hellscape of a planet I cannot escape the damned greenskins, Emperor why ;-;"
Weeaboo dragons and Mayan lizards get super burnt, of course.