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[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm not wrong.

[Ghazkull]

What i find all the more funny is that the entire empires current horrible state of affairs is simply due to somebody not paying attention to his sons. Or creating 300kg 3-4m tall demigods with the minds of 14 year olds and ships and armies to perpetrate genocide on a daily basis.

Maybe most of this horrible characterization of Primarchs is really due to all of them still being children/teens in their mindspace and due to no guiding parental hand never got out of it.

[Kot]

This was unavoidable really. Primarches grew mostly without Big E around, so they already had personalities developed by the time he got there. It should be also noted that describing Primarches as having minds of teens is actually pretty accurate. This is because Space Marines are /more/ than human in every sense of the word. They are stronger, smarter, bigger, immune to most dieases, living almost forever, but most importantly, they feel stronger. Every little personality quirk is magnified amongst them, their rage is stronger, their desire is stronger, their despair and both loyalty and treachery is much more than in regular humans.
And Primarches are more than just Space Marines. This is why they constantly argued and this is why they could be so easily manipulated by both sides.

[Loud Whispers]

Tbh knowing the Emperor's parenting skills it's for the best that his kids got nabbed by the warpchild protection services. No parenting, half his sons stick with him. With parenting, once they hit teen angst rebel phase, all his kids join the edgy heresy

[Kot]

Emperors parenting skills wouldn't be that bad tbh. Back then he actually had time to teach them shit, after that not so much. And it would fix an awful lot of Primarches problems. Lorgar never grows up in Chaos Cult, no Butcher's Nails, Curze doesn't grow up in murderhell, Magnus learns psykerstuff from Emperor and Malcador, Perturabo never genocides the Olympians, so on. The only traitor Primarches that were not permanently fucked up by childhood were Mortarion (whose fall is the only one that I can agree was nearly 100% Emperors fault), Fulgrim (turned by magic xeno chaos sword) and Horus (turned by Chaos magic). There's also Alpharius and Omegon but in their case nobody fucking knows. It should also be noted that Horus, being the first primarch rediscovered, had some time with Big E and they were really close and it was great.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I maintain that all of the traitor Primarchs could have been averted even post-kidnapping.

Angron: Rain down hell on Nuncia and exterminate their nobility. Angron's whole deal before he went really crazy is that the Emperor acted just like the people who put him in chains. Angron showed loyalty to his fellow gladiators; if the Emperor showed him that same loyalty he could have mitigated the influence of the Nails. They seem to get worse and worse as Angron indulges in his hatred of everything.

Curze: "Man, that whole thing where he demanded to be called Night Haunter and said he already knew what I intended sure was weird, I had better make sure he wasn't twisted into a lunatic by this hellworld or accidentally fell into prescient certainty from inheriting part of my psychic might."

Magnus: "Your people's 'tutularies' are actually the opening move of extradimensional alien invaders who are trying to corrupt and enslave humanity from within by using our thirst for knowledge against us. Nothing warp beasts say can be trusted. Don't tell your brothers, also just keep Russ at arm's length, I gene engineered him to be an intolerant lunatic and he won't get it."

Lorgar: "Seriously, not a god. What you're doing is feeding the power of extradimensional alien invaders who we're going to have to deal with after the Great Crusade, knock it off and read some existentialist philosophy."

Perturabo: "Don't decimate your own legion, Jesus Fucking Christ. The Imperium's tyrannies are a practical means to an end, not an ideal to be believed in."

Mortarion: This is the weird one. Mortarion turned because he saw hypocrisy in everything, but he also was very loyal for a time when he found out about the Imperial Webway plan. He's probably safe if Horus is averted, albeit still with massive issues. Given his attitudes towards the warp, I don't think he'd actually turn unless there was a revolt already underway.

Fulgrim: "Watch out for talking alien artifacts, they're cognitohazards."

Horus: Safe if Lorgar is averted.

Alpharius: ...

[pisskop]

what were tutliaries.

i guessed daemons of some kind but im only halfway through that book

[sprinkled chariot]

How do boarding parties inside naval sharkboats/boarding torpedoes fare?
Do they even return back to the naval ships, or it is one way trip?



Also 3 days until release of master of mankind book 

[Grim Portent]

what were tutliaries.

i guessed daemons of some kind but im only halfway through that book

Pyschic familiars formed out of the psychic energies of the Thousand Sons. Due to being a minor warp entity, with possible ties to Tzeentch, they were basically a dark reflection of the inner psyche of the Sorcerer who made them.

They assisted their masters in harnessing their powers, studying and were otherwise just pleasant companions/pets for a long time until the Burning of Prospero when they turned on their masters, either from Tzeentch's influence or the sheer atavistic glee and battlelust the fight between Astartes brought out in them, driving them into psychic overloads, wresting control over their bodies or otherwise forcing them to overexert themselves against the Space Wolves.

[pisskop]

So a poweful enough psyker can create warp entities.  That may or may not manifest themselves in our plane.  Or be physical?  And apparent dont care or dont need their creators

[Grim Portent]

They basically just bundled up a bunch of warp energy into a minor daemon, like how the gods make daemons but with far less power involved. It's not that uncommon for Sorcerers in the fluff.

[Digital Hellhound]

Perturabo should just have been given something more constructive to do. Nothing about him says 'leader of men' - he should've been left to design and build stuff across the Imperium. You could've gotten a golden age of architecture and new technology to show the glory of Mankind, but noooo, you put the antisocial manchild in charge of people.

[nenjin]

Look at it this way. (I will preface this by saying I don't have kids.)

What do you think would have happened if your parents had tried to explain sex, drugs, rape, murder, the Holocaust, world-ending calamities beyond your control, hellfire and total damnation, all at the age of 7?

I imagine some would say "Well I'd have assimilated that knowledge and been better for it."

I think for a lot of people though, they'd be traumatized/tempted. I know I went through D.A.R.E class and that lasted oh about 4 years.

Now make that "slavering eternities of hatred that thirst for your suffering and blood and are as much a part of your existence as the air you breathe."

I'm not saying continuing to keep the truth from his sons as long as he did was even remotely correct. What parent fails to check in on all their kids when one's doing coke, one's cutting himself and everyone else, another is already a certifiable homicidal maniac and a handful are just total dicks?

But you can read a parenting allegory into the desire to protect your kids from the awful truth. I guess I liken it to my dad a little bit. He had guns around the house for years, just bb guns and a 22 rifle. But he'd never told me about them really ever. I had to go find them, play with them, shoot them and misuse them a little bit. That's what it took. Should he have taught me about gun (warp) responsibility earlier? Sure. But there's no guarantee I would have been responsible with those guns (warp) even after he educated me. Magnus sure fucking wasn't, when it came down to it.

So cut the Emperor some slack. He's a single-working dad with about 4,000 full-time jobs and literally the weight of the universe on his shoulders. And then his pseudo ex-wife swoops in and steals the kids and turns them over to 20 different in-laws.

I suppose you could use Sex Ed. as a decent counter example. "Look Magnus, I know you're going to be off playing with the Warp behind the Coolant shed whether I'm around or not. The least you can do is do it safely."

[Grim Portent]

He did more or less try that. He tried to tell Magnus that Tzeentch and the warp entities he bargained with were dangerous, but Magnus had already made bargains with them that went well, so he thought his father was exaggerating, or that his father was ultimately less capable of mastering the Warp than he was, when in fact his father just knew the true face of daemons better than Magnus, who thought he could trust them.

[pisskop]

bs.

magnus would have dwelved as far as he wanted to whether or not emps taught him about bananas with condoms on.


magnus' attituide was one of comfort with the warp.  his power and inexperience brought him down.

but since his legion was a bunch of freaks with more mutations than a chaos spawn before prospero whyd emps not end them