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[MetalSlimeHunt]

Because Primarchs are harder to make, and they're his actual children? Making Space Marines was clearly in the cards as far back as the Thunder Warrior days, but the Primarchs were something special.

Knowing they were out there (and in Magnus' case, having telepathic contact with) was at least a major obstruction to making more, but that's also not the point. Even if he had just made more, the others would still be out there to corrupt. They were close enough to Emps in power and familiarity to tear down the Imperium and put the knife in his back when the time came.

Even that took one of the better warriors among them, infused with the essence of all four gods, and it still only mostly killed him.

Like, take what happened with Horus as a microcosm of all this. Another enemy of the same power would have been obliterated instantly. But by being the person the Emperor might have cared about more than any other they were able to tear him apart. If not for a certain badass guardsman he might have even died fully and brought humanity into Chaos.

[Kot]

I don't buy this. Him and the WBs have a pathological need to bow down to SOMETHING. Otherwise they'd have just made giant statues of generic ubermensch putting his foot on a planet's neck and called it good. But instead they need an icon, a figure, as the object of their worship. Otherwise they would have been the greatest proponents of the Imperial Truth.....but they weren't. They were its biggest naysayers by directly contradicting it. Put another way, there were far easier and less problematic targets of their "wonder" than the Emperor. It's Faith, not just simple wonder at the vastness of existence. The universe already offered plenty of that.

Lorgar? Maybe. WB? Not so much. Initially they were called Imperial Heralds and they were the biggest on Imperial Truth from all of them. They had Marines clad in black armour with winged maces and skull helmets (Proto-chaplains) that carried out the Imperial diplomacy - submit to The Emperor and His Truth or die. It was only after Lorgar came they started to turn Emperor into a God.
I do guess the part of that comes from the fact that they were actually kind-of-penitent from the start, as they were children of Big E political enemies, though.

Again another example of "Why exactly did you do this again, Emps? Why did you antagonize the guy you gene-bred to be a RAEG machine, who you knew was already even more doped up on the Butcher's Nails?" Emps gave weeks, maybe even months to the other Primarchs, to know them and meet them and understand them. Angron? He treated Angron in exactly the way necessary to produce the Red Angel. All according to plan, I guess? Right. The plan of the drafting team at the Black Library desperately trying to connect the dots of 40k's mythology to a 400-page novel.

"- I spent a lot of work on you and I love you and I can give you an army and I will make everything right and I will save you and your friends from certain death come with me my son pls.
- No. I want to die because I am edgy raging bundleofsticks.
- Okay I take you anyways because you're too valuable but you're not listening so I will send some valuable captains to you so get some new friends and change your mind. Don't worry they won't hurt you because I told them not to.
- No. I murder them because I am edgy raging bundleofsticks and they don't fight back. But this guy Khârn is pretty fun to be around. I guess an army and everything being right is not that bad after all, but I will need to turn all of my new soldiers into edgy raging bundleofsticks because I am one. Oh, and we will also slaughter all the people we're supposed to free and help, because BURN MAIM KILL.
- Angron please no, that's bad thing to do, please cease.
- Fachk you dad, you don't understand my RAGE.
- Angron I will need to send some of your brothers to talk to you.
- I try to kill them and fail miserably and I am defeated but that's okay because I win anyways. I always win.
- ANGRON FOR THE FUCK'S SAKE. DON'T MAKE ME CALL HORUS, OH RIGHT YOU JUST MADE ME CALL HORUS.
- Lol, jk, Horus tells me that murder and worshipping evil space deities is good. Heresy is A-Okay!
- ANGROOOOOOOOOOOOOON. HORUUUUUUUUUUUS. MAGNUUUUUUUUUUUUUUS."
Single parenting in a nutshell. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's kind of what I feel like has happened in 40k, where the decision to have dragons was made 20 years ago and the attempt to explain in a way that doesn't complete insult the reader's intelligence is only a couple years old.

Ye. The fact that you have multiple writers and sometimes contradictory stuff doesn't help.

Remember: If the Chaos Gods had killed the Primarchs Big E could have made more or gone without them. By corrupting them they came closer than they ever did to being rid of the Emperor.

Facts not in evidence. It begs the question why he made Space Marines at all when he could have just made legions of Primarchs. It goes back to the theory that the Primarchs were made from a not-infinite resource. (Be that the Emperor's own essence, the stolen power of the Chaos Gods, what have you.)

He could have. There was Primarch geneseed template (as in, not personalized one) circling around during HH until Alpha Legion took it and it dissapeared.
Soon after the GREY KNIGHTS BEST KNIGHTS appeared. Yeah, I don't like that either due to fact that they now will forever stink of Matt Ward, but it doesn't change the fact that they are and were Mini-Primarches to begin with.

[Neonivek]

Mmmm Ketchup and Mustered to go with my Emperor dog.

Now being sold for 2.5 credits.

[nenjin]

actual children

Questionable at best. Unless you're positing he just spunked into the those incubation chambers. By your definition, all Space Marines are his actual children.

Making Space Marines was clearly in the cards as far back as the Thunder Warrior days, but the Primarchs were something special.

The progression goes: Thunder Warriors (Damn I need these guys to last longer.) --> Primarchs (Welp, there goes like 100 years of hard core genetic science.) --> Space Marines (Guess I'll use the left overs to make these....)

They were close enough to Emps in power and familiarity to tear down the Imperium and put the knife in his back when the time came.

Space Marines in general demonstrated this point already. No primarchs needed. I mean yeah, shit would have gone worse for the Imperium if 100,000 Primarchs had turned on him.....but in galaxy where whole worlds are vaped, millions killed, reality shredded....could it really have been that much worse?

There was Primarch geneseed template (as in, not personalized one) circling around during HH until Alpha Legion took it and it dissapeared.

Circling around may be putting it a little too generically. Corvus had to get explicit dispensation from the Emperor to enter one his gene-labs and fight his way through GENIOUS-MAZE to even get it.

[pisskop]

(i.e., before he ever had a speaking part.)

Is this cannon?  He now communicates via physical means?

[Kot]

Mmmm Ketchup and Mustered to go with my Emperor dog.

Now being sold for 2.5 credits.

THAT'S GOLD NOT YELLOW. D:<

Circling around may be putting it a little too generically. Corvus had to get explicit dispensation from the Emperor to enter one his gene-labs and fight his way through GENIOUS-MAZE to even get it.

And then Alpha Legion stole it and gave it to Horus except not really and nobody knows what happened.
Except the Janus = Omegon theory but that's... let's say it's on hold due to recent news of Alpharius dying and Omegon becoming Alpharius.

[Neonivek]

Sweet golden mustard

[Dorsidwarf]

I have to say, the Emperor impressed me a lot more before I learned all the Secret Shaman Snatch lore, and he was just a super psychic human who refused to let Humanity perish and sacrificed himself to eternal suffering for mankind.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Questionable at best. Unless you're positing he just spunked into the those incubation chambers. By your definition, all Space Marines are his actual children.

I mean emotionally. He clearly does not care about all SMs in the same way as the Primarchs, and the Primarchs are also "natrual" instead of augmented.

The progression goes: Thunder Warriors (Damn I need these guys to last longer.) --> Primarchs (Welp, there goes like 100 years of hard core genetic science.) --> Space Marines (Guess I'll use the left overs to make these....)

This more supports my version than yours. He retained all the resources of the Primarch Project, but instead of continuing with the actual Primarchs he adopted it into an augmentation procedure and used it to make the Legions while he looked for the Primarchs.

Space Marines in general demonstrated this point already. No primarchs needed. I mean yeah, shit would have gone worse for the Imperium if 100,000 Primarchs had turned on him.....but in galaxy where whole worlds are vaped, millions killed, reality shredded....could it really have been that much worse?

The Space Marines never could have taken down the Emperor. Hell, the Horus Heresy as a whole almost failed. Only that critical point of using Horus emotionally against the Emperor allowed him to be struck down. And besides that, the Space Marines never would have had the corruption rates they did if not for the Primarchs to convince them. The HH with every Legion having the defection rates of the loyal ones would not be too impressive.

I have to say, the Emperor impressed me a lot more before I learned all the Secret Shaman Snatch lore, and he was just a super psychic human who refused to let Humanity perish and sacrificed himself to eternal suffering for mankind.

He's still like that. He watched human civilization from our infancy, and tried to be our guide. Even after every failing, every problem and corruption, humanity still eventually made it to the stars. But it all came crashing down and would never recover. Even after all that, when he was hardened by the ages of failure and decided to rule over humanity, he still believed we could become what we were meant to be.

And even after all that came crashing down, after being betrayed by his own children, he persists in deathless agony so that humanity can survive even as they make a mockery of everything he tried to create. That is sacrifice.

[Kot]

I have to say, the Emperor impressed me a lot more before I learned all the Secret Shaman Snatch lore, and he was just a super psychic human who refused to let Humanity perish and sacrificed himself to eternal suffering for mankind.

The only difference is that he has origin story and not came out of ass. He's not bajillion thousand Shamans in one body, he's a regular human with psychic powers of bajillion thousand Shamans.

[Neonivek]

I have to say, the Emperor impressed me a lot more before I learned all the Secret Shaman Snatch lore, and he was just a super psychic human who refused to let Humanity perish and sacrificed himself to eternal suffering for mankind.

The only difference is that he has origin story and not came out of ass. He's not bajillion thousand Shamans in one body, he's a regular human with psychic powers of bajillion thousand Shamans.

It helps that he is a Lich

By definition.

The Lich Emperor

[GiglameshDespair]

Not really...?

[Neonivek]

Not really...?

He is having his life artificially extended by devouring souls... plus is often described as being neither alive nor dead.

I am not QUITE sure how he isn't a Lich

[Kot]

Lack of phylactery, for one. And he's not really a Lich because he needs to have his body on life support (so, he is technically ALIVE, but very, very barely), the devoured souls only help him power The Giant Fucking Flashlight On Terra, or at best help him keep his soul in one piece.

[Neonivek]

Lack of phylactery, for one. And he's not really a Lich because he needs to have his body on life support (so, he is technically ALIVE, but very, very barely), the devoured souls only help him power The Giant Fucking Flashlight On Terra, or at best help him keep his soul in one piece.

Phylactery is REALLY not a requirement and is something entirely made up by dungeons and dragons (and isn't a requirement even in that. There are Lichs without one. They just have a rather sizable weakness) well sort of.

The definition of a Lich is someone who extends their lifespan by unnatural or supernatural means USUALLY implying something along the lines of witchcraft... But eating souls definitely hits the definition dead on (which is the definition that the World of Darkness uses)