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[Grim Portent]

Also Grim, you really should write that story up some time, a riptide killing a friggen bloodthirster in MELEE is absolutely hilarious. Have to feel sorry for the poor bastard given the admonishment khorne would be giving them

It was stupid more than anything else.

I charged a Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury, the vanilla 'thirster basically, into a Riptide with two drones that was trying to hide behind a small patch of trees. The Riptide had overcharged it's reactor to buff it's invulnerable save to 3+ instead of 5+, combined with bad rolls on my part (and forgetting the 'thirster caused Instant Death on 6s to wound) it suffered no real damage in the first round of the assault, the Riptide proceeded to whiff it's attacks back at the 'thirster, and then one of the drones managed to cause a wound. A drone.

That more or less set the tone for the next few rounds, the Bloodthirster would land a few hits, they'd mostly be saved by a 3+ invun, the Riptide would flail futilely, occasionally landing a hit, and the drones would keep chipping away at the daemon, eventually the Bloodthirster was nudged to death, with the drones causing 3 of the 5 wounds it took over the fight. The riptide and it's drones were then cut in twain by a Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage and it's D-axe that had been making it's way over in 2 or 3 turns (4 to 6 individual rounds) that fight took.



Since then I usually just target the drones first and just chase the Riptide down when it runs, as it usually does. I can't actually remember who won that game though, I think it was a casual doubles match, KDK and Tyranids against Tau and Guard. We were stomping until a Farsight bomb costing about 800 points dropped into my brother's backline and wrecked him with more plasma than I have vehicles. There was so little left by the end of game, I think all they had left was a Valkyrie and the Farsight bomb, I had a Decimator shuffling around, a couple of bloodletters and my brother had a few small 'nids running around.



I do have terrible luck with Bloodthirsters though. In almost every fight mine get into they miss most of their attacks. I once had a vanilla 'thirster and a d-thirster locked in combat with Canoptek Wraiths for the first couple of turns of a game with barely any wounds caused by either side until the d-thirster rolled a bunch of 6s and bisected everything around it.

My best anecdote for Chaos was probably when 5 Possessed and 8 cultists killed two Necron Lords, a unit of 10 Immortals and 3 Destroyers. One of the Lords even had a reanimation orb. 

[Dorsidwarf]

Weirdly, I have never seen anyone at the FLGS with a piranha in Tau. Not one.

This is a store with a guy who plays Knight armies exclusively and where even the nice dude bought a unit of haywire servitors after losing a game to my infantry+ tank ig

[Kot]

Of course, now we're getting into crunch and have basically dropped fluff. Which is interesting for this thread.

I cannot understand a thing.

[Rolepgeek]

Any IG player of experience will have discovered officers of the fleet- making an outflank-reliant army unbearable.
A fact I recount with the sadistic glee of past experience.

Of course, now we're getting into crunch and have basically dropped fluff. Which is interesting for this thread.

No, not outflank

Just flank

Flat-out Piranhas cover half the board, mate.

And Markerlights can call in Seeker missiles that hit against back armor, if that's where their carrier is.

What lovely Russes you had.

I haven't had the opportunity to play much, but I remember one match I got into, I'd kitted my Commander out to be Tank'O (Iridium+Stims+Shields), and he got challenged by the enemy Chaos Champion Biker Warlord.

I did the math after I had left, since I needed to for time constraints. It would have taken them around 20 Assault phases or so to kill each other, by averages. I think the Commander would've won, just barely, with a single wound left. This is by averages, mind you, but my point is that they basically tarpitted each other for the entire rest of the game.

[Tack]

Do Piranhas do better than Vipers?

I have seen a FLGS with a guy who plays Knight armies exclusively and where even the nice dude bought a unit of haywire servitors after losing a game to my infantry+ tank ig

There is no F in that LGS.

[90908]

Damn you all and your gameplay discussions! Damn you all to hellllll!

[Digital Hellhound]

I've never played a (proper-rules) game of tabletop in my life and I'm finding the discussion genuinely interesting. I know fluff more than enough, crunch makes a nice change. I'm learning!

[Rolepgeek]

So, I'm of the opinion that Railsides should have been brought down to Str 9 AP1 instead of 8, but I haven't actually gotten a chance to use them ever, so I'm curious about it for people who have. Is the higher range useful enough to justify the difference in firepower between Missilesides and Railsides?

[Grim Portent]

So, I'm of the opinion that Railsides should have been brought down to Str 9 AP1 instead of 8, but I haven't actually gotten a chance to use them ever, so I'm curious about it for people who have. Is the higher range useful enough to justify the difference in firepower between Missilesides and Railsides?

I've not used them personally, but Tau are a regular opponent of mine and I'd comfortably say no it isn't. The AP1 can be if you really like to explode vehicles rather than glance them, but if you want to do that you're better off with melta weapons or Hammerheads. The modern role of Broadsides is pouring tonnes of fire onto medium weight targets, stuff like Rhinos, Predator tanks and Tyranid Warriors.

[Taricus]

And also giving the middle finger to anything that flies (Barring superheavy fliers.)

[Rolepgeek]

And also giving the middle finger to anything that flies (Barring superheavy fliers.)

That was actually kinda feeding into my question. Because of the way range works, does that extra range for Railsides (sometimes used as Snipersides with Advanced Targeting Systems) allow them to threaten a larger area of flyers, or is there still simply not enough force behind that threat to make it salient?

[Taricus]

Oh yeah, it certainly does. Fliers don't tends to have anything above AV12 commonly, and have few hull points.

[Grim Portent]

The problem with Railguns as an anti-vehicle option is that frequently you wind up, as many Tyranid players are familiar with, paying points to miss. Looking at you Tyrannofex. 

In general you need good BS and multiple shots to reliably cause damage. A few turns of bad rolls can see a Hammerhead struggle to kill a Predator even with S10 and AP1. It's one reason Chaos Marines favour Autocannons over Lascannons for Havoc sqauds.

Most Tau are only BS3, and I don't think Broadsides are an exception. Without Markerlight support that's not great odds to hit, and I don't think Broadsides can take the different munition types for their railguns, so they can't fire blasts to compensate when necessary like Hammerheads can. Missile pods though fire enough shots you're guaranteed at least one hit per suit as well as being able to help gun down infantry when necessary.

[Taricus]

First rule of tau; ALWAYS HAVE MARKERLIGHTS. They're what make you absolutely fearsome. Especially when you teach those fucking cover-campers what you think of their tactics.

[Rolepgeek]

First rule of tau; ALWAYS HAVE MARKERLIGHTS. They're what make you absolutely fearsome. Especially when you teach those fucking cover-campers what you think of their tactics.

I wrote a guide on Advanced Tau Tactica essentially about how to incorporate markerlights into every level of your army. Markerlights and Seeker missiles would be a huge part of my strategy, were I able to afford to play regularly. They have to be. They're what make Tau good. Overwatch at BS 2 or 3? Frankly ridiculous.

Plus they have secondary weapons, which allow them to at least fulfill a niche role if necessary. HYMPs are pretty great in general, but they definitely make your Missilesides priority targets, and while this can be a great cornerstone, if you're on a larger playing field, HRRs have more target flexibility. I do think Str 9 would have been better for them than 8, at least for internal balance against Missile Pods, as well as flavor, since it would let them occasionally own AV14. Would make Railheads relatively worse, though. :/