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[Kot]

There are also brains in jars. Brains in jars everywhere.

[LordBaal]

We already had this conversation a few weeks ago I think, nuclear toasters were involved if memory serves.

Whatever machine spirits be (demons, c'tan, brains with chips, chips with brains, brains in jars...) they are very real for somethings like vehicles, ships and anything big/important enough to warrant having one. For the rest of things is most probably just superstition. According to the mechanicus a nail clipper, being a machine has a machine spirit. Other things like a lasgun are more gray since they could potentially have voice activated commands that the "prayers" could engage to correctly operate the weapon for example.

As always in 40k it can range from wild superstition, passing by actual technology, to real demons or anything between or beyond.

[Tack]

@andres: I see a lotta spaghetti with no sauce.
Forgive me if I ain't swallowing it.

[Kot]

In The Grim Darkness Of Far Future, There Is No Sauce, Only Headcanon... also convincing people your Headcanon is best one.

[sprinkled chariot]

How can you call tau expansion great crusade 2.0?
It is like calling every ork waaaaaagh great crusade 2.0 ORKY edition.

[LoSboccacc]

In The Grim Darkness Of Far Future, There Is No Sauce, Only Headcanon... also convincing people your Headcanon is best one.

I love headcanon, best canon. My fav is the Akashic writer theory

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I still emphasise that it's an induced vision specifically mentioned as being dubious. It is not necessarily gospel.

The second Golden Throne (or Akashic Reader) is a device constructed to 'read' knowledge from the warp itself. Think looking at the code of a computer program that alters itself and seeing every single piece of code that has made the program what it is. It used thousands of psykers all to be sacrificed with one central psyker on a golden throne who would also have his mind eventually overloaded.

It raises questions as the actual purpose of the Golden Throne. If their one was an Akashic Reader, what if the Emperor's was an Akashic Writer? I mean, thousands of psykers are sacrificed to the throne a week, and you'd expect the act of writing require much, much, much more power than reading. So say the Emperor builds one. A pretty crap one of course, but designed to rewrite parts of the warp - and even writing limited parts would require many, many psykers and the Emperor behind it.

Perhaps his first test was the webway - creating his passage in to the webway, then erecting wards in the passage to keep warp creatures out. Magnus' message breaks the wards, allowing the warp creatures to enter the semi-webway, and after much fighting, the Emperor manages to shut it off temporarily by blocking it with the Akashic Writer writing a blocking field or something like. The problem is, he can't write it completely closed because he requires a lot more psykers to sacrifice and therefore add to the power.

Those few psykers present are needed to power the astronomican, without which the Imperium will fall, and he can't afford that. So he's forced to wait until conditions are better, constantly writing the breach closed. Then Malcador takes over for a bit while the Emperor kills Horus, mortally wounding himself in the process. Malcador can't keep up the power, and he himself disintegrates in the fashion of Jonas, the psyker on Mechanicum's golden throne.

So, the dying Emperor sits on the Throne, finally manages to write the breach closed... but by then he's nearly dead. The priests attending the throne have already locked it into the procedure to keep the Emperor alive - all the psykers' power constantly writing the Emperor as existing, while he sits there, trapped in his half-life.

But that's just my interpretation. One I like, but not necessarily true.

as fonud here http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?170482-Mechanicum-*SPOILER-ALERT*-(No-seriously-massive-spoilers)&p=3069649&viewfull=1#post3069649

but now site's ded

[Rolan7]

Those AIs would be in a similar boat to Tau, who practically don't have souls.  Too young.  That's why the Tau are mostly immune to chaos corruption, and possibly why they have to use shitty realspace travel instead of the warp.  Though the Ethereals might have some kind of psychic power, they're weird.  Might not be warp related.

It is just pure inspiration, comrade

Do you not believe in the True Message of the Ethereals? That is okay. We all doubt sometimes. The Enthusiasm Assistance Centers are just down the street, just say Aun'nel Trustbound sent you. They'll fix you right up.

(Wait, "Aun'nel" would be... talking to a gue'vesa??  So egalitarian!)
"Oh thank you, I'll report right away!  I didn't realize I was faltering, but if you say so!"

What's silly is that I was thinking of stuff like the holo clones ethereals can summon in Dawn of War, which are almost certainly just advanced technology not psychic power.  I wasn't even actually questioning the love for Ethereals.  They're just great!

I guess for "win conditions", Tau would need a better FTL drive.  That would let them find even better minor race allies, and probably kick off that afore-mentioned geometric expansion.  Especially since Tau can sometimes annex human worlds through diplomacy (backed by military power).  They really just need raw numbers to utilize their tech advantages, imagine if they managed to win a full hive world.  Gue'vesa in Imperial Guard numbers but with pulse rifles, mmm...  Imperium would have to devote a lot of resources they can't afford.

If they did overrun the galaxy they'd have countless safely-regulated psychers, the STCs, and extremely advanced understanding of biomorphic organisms from their Kroot.  So I could see them taking on the Tyrannid mother fleet.
(maybe even find a way to purge defeated Ork spores with nanites... nah, Orks are eternal.)

[Teneb]

FACT: Machine Spirits are the daemons of the Void Dragon and are poised to turn against humanity at any moment.

Yeah, no. It's quite likely that the Dragon can control machine spirits, but C'Tan are purely material beings and don't have any sort of warp presence.

Also machine spirits only exist in human machines.

How can you call tau expansion great crusade 2.0?
It is like calling every ork waaaaaagh great crusade 2.0 ORKY edition.

Ghazkull seems to be going that way, though.

If they did overrun the galaxy they'd have countless safely-regulated psychers, the STCs, and extremely advanced understanding of biomorphic organisms from their Kroot.  So I could see them taking on the Tyrannid mother fleet.

How would they have safe psykers? They don't have much knowledge of the warp (and the integrated humans won't have much either since the Inquisition handles these things), so they wouldn't even know how to do it. They'd also need to deal with genestealer cults in addition to Chaos and Imperial ones. And it is unlikely STCs would be available to be used because: 1) They're pretty damn rare and the Imperium would go apeshit if they knew the Tau were holding one; and 2) It's human tech, and only humans can use human tech because machine spirits.

[Kot]

Speaking of Ork Great Crusade, that was The Beast. He set up the clans, they mass-produced guns and vehicles better than Eldar stuff and he himself was imcredibly fucking powerful huge dude that could scare sectors into submission with his psyker Waaaaagh belief shouting powers... aaannnddd Ork diplomats.

[Rolan7]

I meant as a very-end scenario where they managed to defeat and absorb the Imperium.  Massively theorycrafting, but the Tau have science.  Given the resources of the Imperium, I think they'd be able to safely study chaos and learn how to properly safeguard psychers.  Which sounds crazy, but the Imperium partly manages it with ancient artifacts (from before the heresy, right?), that haven't been improved in millenia.  Also helps that the Tau themselves wouldn't be vulnerable to corruption, just the gue'vesa (and Eldar?) volunteers.

Course that's all waaay off the deep end.  Mostly I just meant that Tau need better FTL to have a chance of actual relevancy

Imperium would have to devote a lot of resources they can't afford.

If Imperium is unable to afford something then really noone is.

That's the only reason they suffer the Tau to still exist, though, they're harried on all sides of their unbelievably large borders (and from within).  Mostly by Chaos and Orks, also occasional hive fleets which devastate SM chapters and local naval forces.
So the relatively harmless blue goats get to survive for now, even as they slowly absorb a few backwater worlds with their heresy.  Heresy that isn't Chaos, so it's lower priority heresy.

[LordBaal]

Ork diplomats.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Kot]

Eldar volunteers

Haha, wut.
You're as naive as the Tau themselves. All I can think of now is that one time when Tau did diplomacy with Dark Eldar.
If anything, it's Eldar who would use Tau as cannon fodder, considering it's highly possible it was them who supplied Tau with Ethereals and proably helped them with tech.

Ork diplomats.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I shit you not, they even spoke perfect High Gothic.

[Rolan7]

If anything, it's Eldar who would use Tau as cannon fodder, considering it's highly possible it was them who supplied Tau with Ethereals and proably helped them with tech.

Ooh, that would be a good twist.  Maybe I focus too much on the video games, but Eldar plans generally seem REALLY stupid.  Would be great for them to finally reveal something that impressive.

[Tack]

Well there was that one time a hive tendril was about to converge with another, so the council of Uthwe teleported the whole damn thing to macragge.
That was pretty baller IMO.

[Grim Portent]

Also that time they poisoned a Tau world so the 'nids that ate them would be weakened and unable to kill a Craftworld they were going to collide with.

Eldar plans do usually make sense, but only if you remember they don't actually have a long term goal beyond protecting their spirit stones rather than beating Chaos or keeping the Necrons asleep. Pretty much everything they do is done out of the belief it'll protect a couple of Eldar lives or prevent spirit stones being destroyed, if Chaos gets a leg up on the Imperium as a result so be it, not like the Eldar care about humans.

The whole Ynnead thing is only believed in by some Eldar, most just concern themselves with survival.