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[LordBaal]

1. Mutants to navigate space? Check.

2. Fear for independent robots (AI) because a event of the past where they tried to kill us all? Check.

3. Close combat in the era of laser guns? Check.

4. Decaying, mighting powerful empire? Check.

5. Infighiting among houses, factions and organizations of said decaying empire? Check.

6. Transhuman, godlike emperor? Check.

7. Feudal system in the era of gigantic space ships? Check.

[nenjin]

40k, and GWS in general, borrows a shit load of Micheal Moorcook too. Their whole concept of Order and Chaos is ripped straight from Moorcock, as is one of the most iconic things in GWS games, the eight-pointed star.

[DJ]

As the only form of sci-fi at the time that was anything other than classic optimistic sci-fi (cyberpunk was still a bit nascent, you see that coming in with 3rd ed. and later), this was a necessity in order to lay the foundation of Grimdark.

1984 was out and well known at the time, and it's as grimdark as SF gets.

[Rolepgeek]

1984 is not sci fi in the same sense as Dune, 40k, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc.

It's more of the punk genre than it is the space genre.

[Neonivek]

As the only form of sci-fi at the time that was anything other than classic optimistic sci-fi (cyberpunk was still a bit nascent, you see that coming in with 3rd ed. and later), this was a necessity in order to lay the foundation of Grimdark.

1984 was out and well known at the time, and it's as grimdark as SF gets.

It wasn't that other people haven't done "Grimdark" before Warhammer 40k in the same way that you can find "Post-modern" books from the 1600s.

It is that Warhammer 40k is somewhat responsible for the setting of Grimdark to be recognized and defined.

Though 1984 isn't sci-fi nor is it "Grimdark without the sci-fi".

---

A similar thing can be found with the "Modern Shooter" genre. Which if you were to get technical existed probably as far back as counterstrike (if not longer) but not defined until I believe the "Modern Warfare" series.

[DJ]

1984 is most definitely SF. Not space SF, but SF nonetheless.

[Neonivek]

1984 is most definitely SF. Not space SF, but SF nonetheless.

But... it features technology that existed at the time. I don't think "Sci-fi" refers to any setting that takes place in the future.

Then again I guess by those merits CSI is Sci-fi... and yet I am not sure if I am being sarcastic or not given that it frequently snaps science over its knee with "science" just like a lot of Sci-fi does.

[Rolepgeek]

Plenty of sci fi features technology that existed at the time. My point was that even if they're technically in the same genre, trying to use a work meant as social commentary and 'five minutes into the future' tech, is vastly different from the Space Fantasy of Dune and it's contemporaries.

May as well compare Don Quixote to The Fellowship of the Ring.

[LordBaal]

Well as long it is fiction and has science/technology as one of the pillars of the history I think it could be called science fiction.

[Dorsidwarf]

1984 isn't grimdark, it's just grim (as fuck).

Like holy shit it's depressing.

It just doesn't beat you over the head with mutated orphans while screaming about endless corruption and the collapse of the universe and the endless brutal opression of the masses

[Jopax]

As the only form of sci-fi at the time that was anything other than classic optimistic sci-fi (cyberpunk was still a bit nascent, you see that coming in with 3rd ed. and later), this was a necessity in order to lay the foundation of Grimdark.

1984 was out and well known at the time, and it's as grimdark as SF gets.

It wasn't that other people haven't done "Grimdark" before Warhammer 40k in the same way that you can find "Post-modern" books from the 1600s.

It is that Warhammer 40k is somewhat responsible for the setting of Grimdark to be recognized and defined.

Though 1984 isn't sci-fi nor is it "Grimdark without the sci-fi".

---

A similar thing can be found with the "Modern Shooter" genre. Which if you were to get technical existed probably as far back as counterstrike (if not longer) but not defined until I believe the "Modern Warfare" series.

Actually, I'd say modern shooters started with CoD2 because that one introduced the whole regenerating hp thing that almost every single god damn military shooter has had since. It then further defined it with MW when it all became modern day gunwankery dressed in drab brown colours.
Luckily the fad seems to be ending, tho the replacement isn't looking too appealing either :V

[miauw62]

I actually found MW2 to be a pretty good shooter. The campaign is actually pretty fun, the special ops are challenging and the multiplayer is broken as fuck but it's really fun to play with friends (RIOT SHIELD WRESTLING)

[GiglameshDespair]

Can blanks have further mutations?

After all, not all mutations are due to chaos. Some pretty strange creatures have risen as a result of noxious chemicals and pollution in the belly of a hive, without chaos being involved (at least, it used to be that way.)

[Grim Portent]

Answers unclear, ask again later.


Or to answer properly... maybe? There's not really been a whole lot written about them, but supposedly their genetics are no less mutable than those of other humans, so I'd assume they can, though most mutation even of chemical origin is still to do with tainting the soul in some fashion.

I think in the RPGs they still get corruption points and can mutate that way as well, though it's been a while since I read their rules so I may be mistaken. Pretty sure they can get corrupted by chaos but that it's much harder since so many sources of corruption don't interact with them so it has to be forced or an active choice on their part. Erebus made a possessed Pariah during the HH for example, which normally shouldn't be possible.

[Teneb]

Erebus made a possessed Pariah during the HH for example, which normally shouldn't be possible.
[/quote
Shouldn't the pariah cause the possessing daemon to just... cease to be?