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[Grim Portent]

A few pages late, but isn't the warp beyond the galaxy the "Formless Wastes?" Daemons belonging to no Chaos God reside there.

No, the wastes overlap out galaxy with the rest of the warp. None of the specific regions of the Warp (of which there are 6) have ever been described as corresponding to any realspace locations.

It's probable that the Warp's regions aren't always in the same places, even relative to one another.

[Andres]

When have Space Marines been saved because of plot armour?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Pretty much constantly? And more when it's Wardian-era Ultrasmurfs.

The Space Marines really don't even make a lot of sense overall, not just individually. The Imperium spans over quadrillions of humans on a million worlds, and the Astartes number in the...low millions at best. Even back in the Great Crusade they were critically understaffed.

The usefulness of Space Marines in this context is obvious: as special forces who break the back of the enemy, and as coordinators of baseline humans. Occasionally, they even get fluffed as such. But usually they're said to function like an army of one thousand (Imperator Vult get out reeeee) each who supposedly make all the difference for the Imperium's power. The Ultras control a sub-empire that takes up most of a segmentum, for fucks sake. Alone.

A single Space Marine should be able to land on a planet, either openly or incognito, and a year later have toppled it for the Imperium by establishing a iron-solid rebellion in record time by way of their superhuman prowess. Teams of Space Marines should ambush and murder the fuck out of xenos leaders and chaos champions when they least expect it. An entire chapter of Space Marines should be reminiscent of Mass Effect's STG, a small group of whom each and every single member is as hard as the best of larger factions, able to operate both everywhere and nowhere.

Instead, drop teams of Space Marines apparently can take entire planets by themselves (can you imagine 20 people, even superhuman people, toppling all of Earth, which is low-population by 40K standards?) and turn back entire strike forces of Tau and Tyranids. Oh, and most of them stand around sneering at the Imperial Guard, as if they'd ever work with or even recognize such casual normies.

[Tack]

Well the Flesh Tearers love working with the IG, although they aren't allowed to do it anymore.
(Not chaos. The beserkiest successor chapter to the blood angels.)

[Andres]

Pretty much constantly? And more when it's Wardian-era Ultrasmurfs.

I liked the summary you gave, but do you know of any specific examples?

[Xantalos]

Pretty much constantly? And more when it's Wardian-era Ultrasmurfs.

I liked the summary you gave, but do you know of any specific examples?

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Kaldor_Draigo

[Rolepgeek]

The Ultras control a sub-empire that takes up most of a segmentum, for fucks sake. Alone.

To be fair, they don't do it completely alone. The help of all their loyal successors is a big aid. Thus why the Dark Angels can get away with it; "But the Ultramarines do it too!"

[Rolepgeek]

A few pages late, but isn't the warp beyond the galaxy the "Formless Wastes?" Daemons belonging to no Chaos God reside there.

No, the wastes overlap out galaxy with the rest of the warp. None of the specific regions of the Warp (of which there are 6) have ever been described as corresponding to any realspace locations.

It's probable that the Warp's regions aren't always in the same places, even relative to one another.

There's some correlation, but it shifts and runs about in ways that are hard to make sense of for four-dimensional minds. At least from what I've gotten concerning the way Warp travel works. Though the God's regions certainly have no specific location.

[miauw62]

Pretty much constantly? And more when it's Wardian-era Ultrasmurfs.

The Space Marines really don't even make a lot of sense overall, not just individually. The Imperium spans over quadrillions of humans on a million worlds, and the Astartes number in the...low millions at best. Even back in the Great Crusade they were critically understaffed.

The usefulness of Space Marines in this context is obvious: as special forces who break the back of the enemy, and as coordinators of baseline humans. Occasionally, they even get fluffed as such. But usually they're said to function like an army of one thousand (Imperator Vult get out reeeee) each who supposedly make all the difference for the Imperium's power. The Ultras control a sub-empire that takes up most of a segmentum, for fucks sake. Alone.

A single Space Marine should be able to land on a planet, either openly or incognito, and a year later have toppled it for the Imperium by establishing a iron-solid rebellion in record time by way of their superhuman prowess. Teams of Space Marines should ambush and murder the fuck out of xenos leaders and chaos champions when they least expect it. An entire chapter of Space Marines should be reminiscent of Mass Effect's STG, a small group of whom each and every single member is as hard as the best of larger factions, able to operate both everywhere and nowhere.

Instead, drop teams of Space Marines apparently can take entire planets by themselves (can you imagine 20 people, even superhuman people, toppling all of Earth, which is low-population by 40K standards?) and turn back entire strike forces of Tau and Tyranids. Oh, and most of them stand around sneering at the Imperial Guard, as if they'd ever work with or even recognize such casual normies.

I dont think incognito space marines is very plausible :v

[MetalSlimeHunt]

An Astartes without power armor is "only" 8 feet tall, not impossible to hide. Also, this is incognito in a military sense, that is, not actively seeking battle.

[Tack]

Raven Guard are the sneakiest fucks around.

[Kot]

Space Marines are actually somehow capable of it. TBH if you're on Hive world that's not really that hard. I suppose they set up and underground organization and soon they don't even have to talk to their mooks anymore, just get a guy to relay orders. They just sit in some hideout and sometimes go and shoot things up, if it's needed.

Ultramar is more or less run and defended by regular humans, they're just real good at it because they have constant Marines support and apparently both High Lord Douchebag and Spiritual Liege have some serious knowledge about civilian shit.

EDIT: I just noticed that in the Battlefleet Gothic: Armada intro there is a Deceiver shadow when the Abbadon is talking with the crone about the Blackstone and whatnot.
JUST AS PLANNED.

[Grim Portent]

Generally marines focus on being either the unstoppable force or the immovable object. Fluffwise they're supposed to be able to barge through most defences to assassinate leaders and break enemy morale, using fast armoured vehicles, spacecraft and hard hitting precision weapons. They're supposed to use surgical strikes to take strategically important locations and destroy vital targets rather than fight grinding wars. They can do the latter, but it's generally a losing battle for them without support.

On the defence they set up chokepoints and killzones, order bombardments on their location that guardsmen wouldn't have the nerve to do, sabotage enemy armour and artillery.

By far though their best advantage is that their morale is almost unshakeable. Most armies lose their will to fight after throwing themselves into a meatgrinder of gunfire and heavy weapons barrages, but similarly most defenders lose hope after a prolonged siege. Marines don't, they fight to the last man and rely on the inferior discipline of the enemy to make them panic, run, surrender or fight among themselves.

In pretty much all the BL novels that star marines/chaos marines they generally don't ever face vastly superior numbers and win. They usually wind up achieving victory through superior mobility letting them attack the enemy commanders, finding a good spot to force the enemies to attack in more manageable numbers, or by serving as the backbone to normal human soldiers fighting positions.

[Tack]

MEANWHILE IN CRUNCHLAND
On the tabletop, Space Marine troops are basically as beefy as the beefier-half of the bellcurve, and their armor saves are really good, unless your opponent has a bunch of stuff which can negate them because everyone playsed space marines. However, Eldar have them beaten on mobility (although the Eldar's troops have currently been slammed with nerfs to gun range, so most of the mobility is used up trying to get closer.)

Very recently a new supplement for Space Marines has just come out, involving new better fluff for the forgotten chapters such as Salamanders, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists, White Scars and Iron Hands (Like they needed it, Raukaan)
Some of it's pretty cool. Iron hands can take a Venerable Dreadnought as their army leader.

[sprinkled chariot]

Have read legion by Dan Abnett.
So after seeing future with cabal device Omegon and Alpharius decide : we will do everything, we will do this for the emperor
And when imperial commander, who tried bombarding alpha legion, fails to run away fron Alpharius and asks primarch : why you even do that?
Alpharius tells them - for the emperor!

So alpha legion is legion of closet loyalists?