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[Andres]

I find it somewhat ironic to see Andrew trying to correct Kot here, on a matter with ties to the Emperor.

How is it ironic?

However, in Wealthy society with enough food and even some leisure time people start enjoying themself, so hello pleasure prince! Also you guess, who benefits from all the change and focus on knowledge gathering.

Slaanesh is also suffering, so the current Imperium is pretty good for that. A perfect world that doesn't stop being perfect is unchanging and thus anti-Tzeentch. There's also no hope because when you have everything you want for nothing and thus don't hope you'll get something.

Is there even a way of weakening all chaos gods except awakening necrons?

Stop their worship.

[sprinkled chariot]

So what's the bay12 consensus as to whether Gork and Mork are real in the same way the Chaos Gods are?

Gork and Mork are not only real, but tag-teamed on Khorne.

Remember: greenskins make stuff real through belief + their passive pyschic power. There are uncountable greenskins in the universe, and they all believe in Gork and Mork. Just like red 'unz go fastah, Gork and Mork are not only real but also really strong.

They do, but that's where my question comes from. Their stuff only really works like that in their vicinity. So are Gork and Mork real independent of large Ork WAAAGHs and able to act throughout the Warp? They never really get mentioned in Warp-stuff, so I'm wondering if they're basically gestalt entities that exist in various styles and fashions around Orks, and get more powerful the more Orks conglomerate in a given place (New Imperial Inquisitorial plan; Orks can be dealt with more easily than Chaos can, or at least more reliably, so direct Ork WAAAGHs to Daemon Worlds, Gork and Mork beat the bloody spikey boyz down so theyz can be the boss o' dis 'ere planet now, and then Imperium comes in and clears that out once the WAAAGH moves on)

Removing all sentient (Tau actually also do count, but to a much lesser extent) beings from the Galaxy is the only way to be sure. Basically sole reason why Alpha Legion was on Horus side is because Cabal told them that, if God-Emperor wins it the Chaos will win in the end, and if the Horus wins, then all sentient beings will get wiped out at one point or other, and Chaos will basically self-destruct.
Though apparently Alpharius and Omegon (one of them is in Alpha Legion, which tends to work against Chaos itself too, the other one is hinted to be the first Grand Master of Grey Knights, and we all know how they roll) choose the third option, eternal stalemate, which was not predicted by Cabal and basically noone else.


As for the belief, the Emperor thought that it is making them stronger but he also realized that emotions make them stronger, so yep, he indeed wanted to weaken them. Chaos is a reflection of all human beliefs and emotions, which is why Chaos gods tend to actually resemble the way they are portrayed by humans. Practically you are kind of right, because the desire for them to exist also makes them stronger, but the knowledge and even belief they exist doesn't do shit.

Yeah, but if you took out the largest powerfully psychic race in the galaxy (humans; their numbers make up for their level of psychic strength, but they have a very intimate connection to Chaos from what I know of the lore, even if it's not directly pointed out), then Chaos(as in, Chaos Gods, mostly, since Warp entities would still exist to some extent) wouldn't have enough to feed on to sustain itself, is what I remember, relating to the Cabal. Although I thought the current state (where Emperor did, in fact, win, but it led to this stalemate and slow deterioration that gives Chaos such juicy emotions to eat) was the scenario that led to Chaos winning.

Spread rumour of big golden humie in da shiny bits, who will rise soon and give everyun DA BIG FOIGHT=> orks believe it and it becomes true > emperor rises, ordo xenos finally did someghing worthy.

[Tack]

I thought Gork and Mork were still minor chaos gods, due to the Orks having very minor psychic presence. (Although more blanket).
Hence why Thraka is such a big deal, because if he pulls together a Waagh big enough, it may well cause the birth of those gods.

Also, Gotta remember that the Chaos gods are directly tied to the afterlife of that universe as well.
As in, to the point where they can directly affect what happens to the souls of departed believers.

[Kot]

Although I thought the current state (where Emperor did, in fact, win, but it led to this stalemate and slow deterioration that gives Chaos such juicy emotions to eat) was the scenario that led to Chaos winning.

And then there is Abbadon which, if he stops failing, of course, wants to basically roll over entire Imperium to burn, maim and kill, just like Horus would apparently do if he won. It's true that this situation is better for Chaos Gods, but IIRC the situations Cabal predicted was either Horus going on rampage and removing Humanity or Emperor conquering the whole Galaxy and then the sheer amount of humans combined would make them basically unkillable or spread to other galaxies or whatshit.

I thought Gork and Mork were still minor chaos gods, due to the Orks having very minor psychic presence. (Although more blanket).
Hence why Thraka is such a big deal, because if he pulls together a Waagh big enough, it may well cause the birth of those gods.

Ye.

Also, Gotta remember that the Chaos gods are directly tied to the afterlife of that universe as well.
As in, to the point where they can directly affect what happens to the souls of departed believers.

Galaxy. Chaos Gods are limited to one Galaxy, pretty much. There might be other galaxies with other Chaos Gods out there.

[Tack]

Well, I get the feeling that the Warp is universal, although only our galaxy currently shows a lot of turbulence, what with the Maelstrom and Eye of Terror and all of those awful mistakes made by so many different races.

[Kot]

The warp is universal where there are emotions. There are no emotions in empty space between galaxies. That's why Chaos Gods would ultimately get more if Emperor actually won because humanity would spread over numerous galaxies and so would the Chaos Gods.

[Egan_BW]

I like to think that the warp around the 40K galaxy is a big ball of fuckupedness, and the inhabitants of other galaxies just stay as far away as possible.

[GiglameshDespair]

Every other galaxy is a bastion of peace and love, and they just look at the Milky Way and sigh. it's the red-headed stepchild of galaxies.

[miauw62]

where did the tyranids come from, then

[Grim Portent]

Canonically the Warp just stops a short distance out from the galaxy. It's basically a bubble that envelops the Milky Way. It does canonically protrude into other realities as well, but does not appear to connect to anywhere else in the 40k reality.

As for what exists beyond the Milky Way, there's 2 separate implications.

The first is that the rest of the Universe, or at least the nearby galaxies, has largely been eaten by Tyranids. They've approached from most angles into the galaxy, and it would make sense that they wouldn't extend their traveling distance unnecessarily if they all started from the same point of origin. Most iterations of the Tyranid codex mention this in some fashion.

The other is that there's some piece of canon, I forget where it's from, that says that Imperial probes sent into the void beyond the galaxy have detected nothing but Ork signals, implying that Orks have spread far beyond the limits of known space. Or possibly that there just happen to be a number of Ork vessels drifting lost in the void. I suspect this is from before the Tyranids were a thing.



Given the way the fluff has developed over the years the former theory is the most likely, with the latter being more or less impossible nowadays. As it stands most nearby galaxies have probably been eaten by Tyranids, and they are now converging on our galaxy, lured by the Astronomicon. The Warp is located only in our galaxy, and is somehow linked to the presence of sapient psychic life.

[Kot]

But what is beyond the galaxies the Tyranids ate...?
Could it be true that they are actually running away from Chuck Norris and not coming towards Terra...?

As for the Ork signals - I see no problems with Orks being out there, since they are Orks. They proably enjoy fighting Tyranids and there can't really be that much Tyranids, considering other galaxies can be seen. At best there are openings everywhere which Orks could use to fly off into on some Space Hulk.

[Grim Portent]

As for the Ork signals - I see no problems with Orks being out there, since they are Orks. They proably enjoy fighting Tyranids and there can't really be that much Tyranids, considering other galaxies can be seen. At best there are openings everywhere which Orks could use to fly off into on some Space Hulk.

Ork FTL uses the Warp. If there's no Warp in the void then Orks can't have travelled far outside the Galaxy, even in the 56 million years or so their species has been around.

[Kot]

Who said anything about FTL? If there is a race that can survive intergalactic travel without FTL, then it's certainly Orks. After all, all it takes is few spores on Space Hulk crashing onto surface of some planet, and there is a crapton of galaxies in ~60 million light years around.

[nenjin]

Really the only question is life support. The Ork ecosystem is so circular it can survive indefinitely. But it needs oxygen to work. So if they had an oxygen source that could last 56 million years in whatever piece of crap floating through space it's installed in, Orks could make the trip.

Assuming one doesn't kill them all through Orky experimentation.

[spazyak]

Really the only question is life support. The Ork ecosystem is so circular it can survive indefinitely. But it needs oxygen to work. So if they had an oxygen source that could last 56 million years in whatever piece of crap floating through space it's installed in, Orks could make the trip.

Assuming one doesn't kill them all through Orky experimentation.

Well, It being orks and such I could see them attaching engines on one side of a small planet.