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Author Topic: WH40K discussion thread: from Tyran's heart I stab at thee.  (Read 1043461 times)

MrRoboto75

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #2490 on: January 10, 2016, 10:05:03 pm »

Maybe make overwatch a bit weaker, require snap shooting or something.  Then again, I don't see why footslogging up to someone with an axe while he has a gun should work out all that well, which is why you use a bike, jetpack, horse, metal box, or lots of bodies.

Of course, I'm most likely the last guy you should ask about 40k balance
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #2491 on: January 10, 2016, 10:09:06 pm »

Overwatch is snap shots already.

Really, I think the problem is solved by having lots of cover-giving terrain that doesn't restrict movement quite as much, as compared to shooter ideal terrain which gives very little cover while leaving unrestricted sight lines and kill zones.
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #2492 on: January 11, 2016, 01:47:00 am »

Overwatch is snap shots already.

Really, I think the problem is solved by having lots of cover-giving terrain that doesn't restrict movement quite as much, as compared to shooter ideal terrain which gives very little cover while leaving unrestricted sight lines and kill zones.

A well-populated city-theme map can make a lot of difference.
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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #2493 on: January 11, 2016, 02:45:09 am »

Yes but crowded maps are usually pretty expensive.
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Grim Portent

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #2494 on: January 11, 2016, 04:31:56 am »

Maybe make overwatch a bit weaker, require snap shooting or something.  Then again, I don't see why footslogging up to someone with an axe while he has a gun should work out all that well, which is why you use a bike, jetpack, horse, metal box, or lots of bodies.

Of course, I'm most likely the last guy you should ask about 40k balance

Partly it's that in universe the few guns that can actually kill things like daemons and space marines are meant to be very rare, and things like 'nids and orks are meant to come in vastly greater numbers than can be killed with guns.

Rules wise metal boxes tend to be overpriced or not allow you to assault out of them, bikes aren't dedicated assault units and tend to get beaten in the actual fight, cavalry are usually very overpriced, and assault units generally tend to cost the same as or more than shooting units.

A hormagaunt for example costs more than a guardsman, but is easier to kill and it's only advantage is slightly faster running speed and initiative, which means they're pretty much worthless.

A bloodcrusher costs more points (nearly twice as many) than a space marine bike but dies more easily to small arms fire with T4 and a 5+ save, and can be instantly killed by things like krak missiles which are pretty ubiquitous and costs less to field than the bloodcrusher, so they're pretty crap unless you get them for free with summoning.

Chaos Land Raiders cost a very big chunk of points but unlike the Loyalist Land Raiders can't fight for shit and carry less models than the better loyalist variants.


Several editions ago (in 4th) assault was if anything overpowered, because they could consolidate out of winning one assault right into another without having to go through another shooting phase inbetween, meaning something like genestealers could rip enemies to pieces. You could also arrive from reserves by outflanking and assault the same turn meaning they could appear and immediately rip into backline units. The latter could also be done in 5th.

Since 6th took away the ability to assault from outflank a lot of units got shit all of a sudden, other units that had been suffering in 5th already ('gaunts and berzerkers for example) got no relief, overwatch compounded the problem, transport vehicles were made easier to kill by the hull points system, the changes to furious charge didn't help, assault grenades working on a model by model basis rather than unit basis also didn't help matters at all.

Granted most of these problems could be dealt with by making assault units cheaper than their shooting equivalents and giving most armies an open topped/assault ramp transport option that doesn't cost more than the unit it's transporting, but there does need to be more support for assault in the core rules. As it is the good assault units are the ones that ignore several game mechanics, like morale checks, being slowed by terrain and instant death, or have ridiculous statlines for their cost like thunderwolf cavalry.
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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #2495 on: January 11, 2016, 04:44:41 am »

Metal boxes tend to be overpriced or not allow you to assault.

A hormagaunt costs more than a guardsman, but is easier to kill and it's only advantage is slightly faster running speed and initiative, which means they're pretty much worthless.
1. 30pt Trukk would like to have a word.
2. Slightly faster initiative is exactly as good as much higher initiative. Still means you attack first, still means you get a wounds advantage.
3. Faster running speed is pretty balls though, but fleet is good for charge actions.
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Grim Portent

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #2496 on: January 11, 2016, 05:01:10 am »

Metal boxes tend to be overpriced or not allow you to assault.

A hormagaunt costs more than a guardsman, but is easier to kill and it's only advantage is slightly faster running speed and initiative, which means they're pretty much worthless.
1. 30pt Trukk would like to have a word.
2. Slightly faster initiative is exactly as good as much higher initiative. Still means you attack first, still means you get a wounds advantage.
3. Faster running speed is pretty balls though, but fleet is good for charge actions.

Only two armies get cheap open topped transports, Orks and DE, neither can share them with anyone except Eldar in the latter's case. DE also only have 1 good assault unit these days.

Higher initiative doesn't help when you have no assault grenades and most enemies are in cover. Hormagaunts just get sucker punched while stuck at initiative 1.
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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #2497 on: January 11, 2016, 05:04:40 am »

Can't even remember what the 5th Ed charging into cover rules were...
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Yeah, he's a banned spammer. Normally we'd delete this thread too, but people were having too much fun with it by the time we got here.

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #2498 on: January 11, 2016, 05:24:59 am »

Can't even remember what the 5th Ed charging into cover rules were...

3d6 drop the highest, intitiative 1 unless you had grenades. Normal 2d6 charge range if you had Move Through Cover.

EDIT: No, wait, that was 6th editions rules I think. I think 5th was 6" static range, 1d6 or 2d6 into cover or something. Can't be bothered to fetch my 5th ed rulebook right now.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 07:35:06 am by Grim Portent »
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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #2499 on: January 14, 2016, 07:40:32 pm »

Andres

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #2500 on: January 15, 2016, 06:32:04 am »

YOUR MOVE
WELCOME YOUR GLORIOUS GOLDEN SUBJUGATOR.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #2501 on: January 15, 2016, 07:53:23 am »

Spoiler: Character Designs (click to show/hide)

Really need a scanner :( Anyway, character designs for a WH40K themed thing I might do.

Reposted from the drawing thread. The beginnings of a WH40K comic or something close to that, and some character sketches of the warband.

The story centers around Eos and her psyker twin Aenisse. Eos hates her witch sister's Warp-infused guts, while Aenisse is too busy hallucinating to care. To ensure no deaths, deliberate or otherwise, are caused, Inquisitor Golath has assigned Drill-Abbot Tyrus and Death Cult Assassin Xerxes to assist and guide them.


I'm planning to play the story out both as Eos' flashbacks and Aenisse's premonitions, as well as present time with the whole cast. Speaking of cast, I'd love some interesting characters for an Inquisitorial warband. Also need to decide which Ordos Inquisitor Golath is in.
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #2502 on: January 15, 2016, 10:00:01 am »

Spoiler: Character Designs (click to show/hide)

Really need a scanner :( Anyway, character designs for a WH40K themed thing I might do.

Reposted from the drawing thread. The beginnings of a WH40K comic or something close to that, and some character sketches of the warband.

The story centers around Eos and her psyker twin Aenisse. Eos hates her witch sister's Warp-infused guts, while Aenisse is too busy hallucinating to care. To ensure no deaths, deliberate or otherwise, are caused, Inquisitor Golath has assigned Drill-Abbot Tyrus and Death Cult Assassin Xerxes to assist and guide them.


I'm planning to play the story out both as Eos' flashbacks and Aenisse's premonitions, as well as present time with the whole cast. Speaking of cast, I'd love some interesting characters for an Inquisitorial warband. Also need to decide which Ordos Inquisitor Golath is in.
It'd be neat to see that Sister Hospitaller that I made for your game in there... :P
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Grim Portent

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #2503 on: January 15, 2016, 11:48:29 am »

Decided to convert Abaddon.

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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #2504 on: January 15, 2016, 01:03:13 pm »

Can't be Abaddon, he's got arms on.
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