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[Sheb]

I thought that "Machine Spirit" were mostly a superstition?

[Cheesecake]

I thought that "Machine Spirit" were mostly a superstition?

That's what I assume too, but I read that Machine Spirits actually take over sometimes, especially in more advanced tech like Titans and tanks, but I guess that's what Dorsidwarf meant with the remnant AIs.

[Sheb]

That's their explanation for when the computers bug.

[LordBaal]

Machine spirits, there's a duality there. At one side, the concept is basic into the Mechanicum belief systems. Machine spirits are within everything mechanical and artificial. Your car have a machine spirit, summed up from the machine spirits of it's countless individual pieces. A lasgun have one too. As do starships or something as simple as an user interface terminal. I think some would consider the OS of computers the respective machine spirits.

Machine spirits reside within any construct (be the spirit interactive like the case of a computer or not like say a mechanical pencil) and are to be pleased and respected if you want equipment to keep working properly. Not only maintenance is needed, prayer and healthy respect are a must too.

On the other hand, when the machine spirit actually manifest back beyond a simple computing program, then machine spirits are AI, be it brains with chips or chips with brains, the result is the same, no matter if it's stored in hardware or wetware, they are very advanced programs, or artificial intelligences. However they are what you might call dub AI, as in non-sentient AI. It's programming far more basic from one of those true complete AI.

These machine spirits tend to follow seemingly basic algorithms but they are capable of perform very complex actions to follow said algorithms, like the case of the Land Rider, which function could be summed up to "protect the imperium", "kill the xenos" or whatever you might come up. There's a instance of one such vehicles waging guerrilla warfare against Orks no less for a few weeks if I recall correctly.

[Ghazkull]

Ah but Titans, land Raiders and especially the Ark Mechanicus are a different notch fromy our basic bolter.

While a bolter machine spirit is in propably almost all cases simple superstition, the Machine Spirit of Titans, Land Raiders etc. are starting to get to an AI. Level. Take for example teh Relationship of Centurions with their Titans. Or alternatively whatever resides on an ark mechanicus.

Those are actual AIs as contrary to your dishwasher whose entire manifestation of "the machine spirit" might be to beep when its done.

[MarcAFK]

Posting to watch as I need ideas for my 40k themed Aurora playthrough.
 I'm so going to butcher canon XD

[Tack]

For us tabletop kids, Cadian Scrapbook recently just came out.
Including a sweet new detatchment.

The command detatchment is a CompanyCommandSquad or Tank Commander (min. 2 Russ sq)

The core detatchments are, minimum:

Infantry:
- 1x CCS
- 3x PCS
- 15x Infantry squad (150 models!!)
- 3x Sentinels.

Armor
- 1x Tank Commander
- 3x Russes
- 1x Techpriest

Which basically means choose between 175 infantry, or 7 tanks.

$$$ for points is a bit ludicrous considering they're both <1000

[LordBaal]

And how much do they both cost, in money?

[Tack]

Regional prices being what they are makes it tricky.
But I'd put them both within $~200 of eachother and definitely under a grand.

Considering how much I've already spent... This depresses me.
40k isn't a year. It's a price tag.


In any case! Given the space between units y'all would be glad to know it'd be physically impossible to get 450 mastercrafted lasgun shots off at the one devestator squad anyone especially wants to die.

Which is good. You'd probably have to roll 25 at a time.

[GiglameshDespair]

A ten man cadian squad is £18. So 150 of them would be £270.
A Cadian command squad is £15.50. I dunno what a PCS is, I'm not up with the abbreviations.
And three sentinels at 18.50 each.

Not including the PCS that's £341 already.
Who has that kind of cash to throw around?

[nenjin]

Older neckbeards with no kids.

[Kot]

The Machine Spirits are actually very real, due to various reasons, but they're also various things. Due to some serious warp-fuckery, which may be beacuse of Mechanicus beliefs and/or the fact they put brains into computers or computers into brains, the things sometimes... do weird stuff that's hard to explain, even if said things are just regular pencils. Stuff just... happens, beause people think it could happen. Then there are of course the actual computers and remains of people on those brains in jars that somehow survived mind wipes and getting cut into pieces, the rare full-AIs, the programming so sophisticated that it can be seen as "life" by those who don't know better. A lot of it is indeed superstition, but there are cases when things as simple as guns start to clear jams by... themselves or when you somehow can juice few more shoots from your empty lasgun battery, when wrecked tanks still keep firing, when a door closes itself just in time to stop the incoming enemies, when power armour fights on it's own while it's clear that the user is very much dead, when lone vehicles fight despite not being crewed, when aircraft do impossible maneuvers, when huge factories on Forge Worlds seem to produce what is required without anybody even knowing how to imput commands, or when space ships ram enemies on full speed despite the crew does everything to stop it. Or when the damn toaster stops working because you didin't chant all the time you were making your toasts. You can try to explain, you can proably also explain all of this in a rational manner... but you'll never know for sure.

Related.

[Grim Portent]

A ten man cadian squad is £18. So 150 of them would be £270.
A Cadian command squad is £15.50. I dunno what a PCS is, I'm not up with the abbreviations.
And three sentinels at 18.50 each.

Not including the PCS that's £341 already.
Who has that kind of cash to throw around?

I'd assume most people would buy it in bits at a time. £340 isn't that much to spend on the hobby over the course of half a year, and it'd probably take most people that long or longer to get them painted anyway.

[LordBaal]

Al right, let's round up the sum of £400 for an IG army with tanks and infantry, adding the PCS (what's that btw?) and anything else needed. We could pump it up to let's say £450.

How much is the minimal wage (if there's one)? Or how much do the average person makes there? How much does it cost a month of rent, services and food there? How much for an average pair of shoes and some clothes? I ask about minimal wage because two things. In my country minimal is the maximum most people can aspire (and indeed ever get). Also because along with the prices of living it would help me create a better picture of how really expensive the hobby is.

[Tack]

Platoon Command Squad.
Could either buy a CCS box or use the leftover CCS bits to turn a guard squad into 2 (which's what I did).
But, no sneaky stuff means the infantry army is coming to ~$1075 AUD for me.



Also money aside...
Who the hell would willingly paint them?


Edit: Saw an "Emperor's shield platoon" online which had only two squads of shock troops.
Will need to find a RAW that the platoons are minimum 50 men, otherwise it maybe an army builder mixup, or a rule change between the campaign book and the scrapbook.
Then again, it could always just be GW doing what they do best.