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[Tack]

Yeah, I feel that 'turning up the dial on your lasgun' is a bit of a cop-out where damage is concerned.
Especially BC on tabletop the difference would literally be going from S3 AP- to S3 AP5.


But keep in mind that Dan Abnett's First and Only was actually the first (haha) original published work by Black Library. Meaning that he was pretty much the pioneer for that entire section of the universe.
Not kidding. 'Vox, Vox Caster, Data-Slate' and a massive chunk of other normal 40k terminology are all 'cos of that series.

So when you say that 'Others did it better', you gotta keep in mind that 'Others' did it later, when GW had decided to turn up the grimdark dial a little harder.


(But it does annoy me that so many characters all the time don't wear helmets, and they don't just get faceblammed by a lucky shot.)

[Loud Whispers]

I can't remember which novel, but one of the spess marine novels has one of the captains fighting against nids alongside the sisters of battle, scowling rather disapprovingly that their power armour is being rendered much less effective by their reluctance to use helmets. It is hilarious.

[Grim Portent]

Read Necropolis

Spoiler: minor spoiler (click to show/hide)

Gaunt finds a chaos spess mareen in a tank that is basically a giant pyramid of baneblades

It is very much an OH FUCK ME moment

Also in the first book just two chaos spess marines wreck some serious shit, and chaos space marines continue to do some hilarious fun shit (Dorfy Fun). The pinnacles have to be in the Saints and Traitor general bits, I can't remember exactly when, but one of them has a team of xenos assassins and chaos servants on a mission - one of these servants is a dreadnought that bursts through the ground and goes all REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. It is very destructive. Veeerry destructive. The traitor general one has the elite of the elite of Gaunt's Ghosts running around on a chaos planet, and before long they attract the attention of chaos space marines. Shit goes down.
Also in regards to cactusnought, it was already very damaged. It couldn't even see them, because the damage was so severe.

If that's the one set in Vervun Hive, I've read it. Was less than impressed.

The appearances of chaos marines in the Omnibus I read consisted of some World Eaters attacking a tank convoy of Hellhound variants, ripping tanks open with chainaxes and then getting casually massacred as the intro for the Ghosts into the story, Iron Warriors being present in a fortress that the Ghosts were able to literally walk into more or less by accident and who got shot by the aforementioned overcharged lasguns and died, and the champion in the pyramid tank who shot Gaunt and failed to kill him because of a wafer of metal and then died to a human stabbing him with a power sword.

EDIT: The funny thing about helmets is that most of the time in the chaos marine books they got blown off by point blank bolter fire anyway.

So when you say that 'Others did it better', you gotta keep in mind that 'Others' did it later, when GW had decided to turn up the grimdark dial a little harder.

The first 40k novel was apparently Draco, originally published as Inquisitor in 1990, now part of the Inquisition War trilogy. GGs was first published in 1999, so there were prior 40K books to set an example. Though Black Library itself wasn't created until '97 apparently, and the first novels were published by GW Books and Boxtree if Wikipedia's accurate. Since BL has them now I'd assume they were published under GWs license.

[Loud Whispers]

Killed with voodoo power sword

[Tack]

So when you say that 'Others did it better', you gotta keep in mind that 'Others' did it later, when GW had decided to turn up the grimdark dial a little harder.

The first 40k novel was apparently Draco, originally published as Inquisitor in 1990, now part of the Inquisition War trilogy. GGs was first published in 1999, so there were prior 40K books to set an example. Though Black Library itself wasn't created until '97 apparently, and the first novels were published by GW Books and Boxtree if Wikipedia's accurate. Since BL has them now I'd assume they were published under GWs license.

So I take it you have read Draco, and other books published before 1999, and you find them to have much better characters, and a more believable story?
Just saying. These books began being written in 3rd edition, when things were very different. I wouldn't be surprised if guardsmen could BLAM a space marine under those rules.

[Grim Portent]

So when you say that 'Others did it better', you gotta keep in mind that 'Others' did it later, when GW had decided to turn up the grimdark dial a little harder.

The first 40k novel was apparently Draco, originally published as Inquisitor in 1990, now part of the Inquisition War trilogy. GGs was first published in 1999, so there were prior 40K books to set an example. Though Black Library itself wasn't created until '97 apparently, and the first novels were published by GW Books and Boxtree if Wikipedia's accurate. Since BL has them now I'd assume they were published under GWs license.

So I take it you have read Draco, and other books published before 1999, and you find them to have much better characters, and a more believable story?
Just saying. These books began being written in 3rd edition, when things were very different. I wouldn't be surprised if guardsmen could BLAM a space marine under those rules.

Haven't read them no, though as this is apparently the trilogy which the fabled Inquisitor who entered the Eldar Black Library comes from I'm very tempted to.

Though if I've got my timeline right, Inquisition War was written during Rogue Trader and 2nd edition, times of vortex grenade toting terminator biker squats and tyranid space centaur diplomats. Times when space marine organs were grown in slaves and the marines themselves were basically thugs with guns. So unless it's been heavily edited the fluff in it is probably unrecognizable by now.

EDIT: Aaargh, just spent a while looking at retro reviews of RT rules. 10 man squads of guardsmen with vortex grenade launchers. WHYYYYY?

[Tack]

Huh. I thought the only human to enter the black library was like, an administrator or some such, and he ended up living many hundreds of years or something.



Edit:
Also, in tabletop news, just painted a squad of 10 ork boyz.
I used 3 different greens and 3 different washes to hopefully make 9 different individual (But not too dissimilar) shades of green.
Plus one brown guy.

It actually turned out ok. The greens are a little samey, but I think if there was a bunch of squads you'd notice the minute differences in shade.

[Andres]

The Emperor's companions are said to never leave his side. The other Custodes take turns fighting an endless horde of daemons under the Imperial Palace. If the companions haven't been fighting for 10k years and the others have, does that mean the other Custodes would be better fighters than the companions by now?

[Grim Portent]

The Emperor's companions are said to never leave his side. The other Custodes take turns fighting an endless horde of daemons under the Imperial Palace. If the companions haven't been fighting for 10k years and the others have, does that mean the other Custodes would be better fighters than the companions by now?

That would depend on whether or not they had reached the pinnacle of their capability during the Great Crusade/Horus Heresy or not, and the type of daemons they fight, lesser daemons would serve as poor training for Custodes.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

By the way, on the "Lasguns > Astartes" conversation, I believe the exact point is that a lasgun at full charge can punch through the joints of power armor. Even Space Marines of the gold and shiny variety can run as fast as a car in battle and have the reflexes to match, so good luck actually scoring that shot. Once you throw tentacles everywhere into the mix it can only get harder.

[Rolepgeek]

Cars don't actually have very good reflexes, you know, MSH.

If a Lasgun can get through the joints, what can a Pulse Rifle get through?

[nenjin]

Re: Early Black Library.

The book I think you're thinking of is Inquisitor War by Ian Watson.

It is early BL work in several ways. The tone and style of it are, compared to the current monolithic 40k Imperial Lore, refreshingly weird and original. You can clearly see the foundations of what becomes standard Imperial 40k in his writings.

That said, I didn't really like it because I'm hooked on the way 40k is now. It's got the same dank future vibe but all the terminology is a little strange by today's standards. It lacks some of the grimark details that usually flesh out 40k settings, leaving you with a slightly less focused theme. It also has "favorite character" obsession problems, namely the female temple assassin that works with Draco who he really wants to bone, and who the author can't help but continually note how the main character is turned on by what she wears. He eventually bones her. :\

Draco was written in a time before Puritans and Monodominants and Radicals, so he's basically like a Radical inquisitor who acts like the rest of the Inquisition isn't looking over his shoulder. So he universe trots and enters the webway and does a lot of epic "high level" stuff for an inquisitor. He eventually ends up Renegade I believe once the fluff catches up to the writing.

[Grim Portent]

Sounds about right for RT/2nd ed fluff.

Beastmen were still in the guard, shark people ran wild among the galaxy and there was no gothic architecture, at least from the drawings and photos I've seen from those days.

40k's past is a strange place, and not in a good way. While I may long slightly for old fashioned Noise Marines and Ork Goff Rockas, I know they'd be far too stupid to include in the army of sadistic rapists and cannibalistic tech-barbarian bioweapons these days. Fun and quirky doesn't fit well in 40k as it is now.

[Knit tie]

I'd say the situation is completely opposite: 40K can definitely use a bit more fun, quirkiness and tongue-in-cheekness. Being absurdly serious is a perfectly valid tactic, but it has already become more than a bit stale, so doing a Cain every now and then will introduce some welcome fresh air into the fluff.

[Dutchling]

ew no, only the most srs bsns grim dark plox