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[Grim Portent]

Yeah but I think I'm wanting to paint and build them more than anything. Playing would be a neat side effect I guess X)

I am the only one of my friends who is like this. They're all about making competitive lists and going out to buy the latest bit of overpowered plastic.
Meanwhile I sit here with my commander I made a name for and that army I whipped up a custom color scheme for just 'cos.
Everyone wants to play with their basecoated models or bases. But nobody wants to paint with me.

Most armies have some sort of analogue to the knights now anyway.

The issue here being that this is a solution to a problem which Shouldn't have Happened.

The right mix of units and weapons pretty much annihilates them, but the wrong mix bounces off them and gets stomped.

... That's a pretty interesting concept. If I could paraphrase for a moment:

The only lists which Might threaten them are ones particularly tailored towards killing Knights, which will get stomped by any player who brings an all-rounder army. Turning a massive sprawling strategy game into a game of scissors, paper, cheese.

If you want to use the points cost to make a devestator squad of Multi-meltas with a drop-pod,  go ahead. 4 5 shots, 2/3 chance of a hit, ~13% chance of a glance, ~60% chance of a pen, 1/3 chance of getting 'Explodes' result. (It has 6HP, so you're not killing it turn one if you don't.)
Someone else can go ahead and grind that into a figure, but meanwhile I'll just sit here sipping iced tea and saying 'Good luck against that Eldar list though' and 'Boy I hope that was worth it's points cost before you get shot charged and stomped by that OTHER Imperial Knight.

I haven't been riled up by anything on this board for years, but mention Imp Knights in the same sentence as 'Balanced' and I'mma come at you.

Don't forget flier cheese

Fliers have forced people to put anti-flier units in their list and that's about it.
Maybe they should've stayed in apocalypse too... I dunno.
But I think if they were worked better, they'd work a lot like cavalry in other strategy games. They come in late, they usually flank wide, and the entire battle generally hinges on who can eliminate the enemy's cavalry/anti-cavalry soonest.

Eh, fliers period of dominating tournaments is largely gone, too much cheap AA in the game now for them to be a big threat. Casual play is another story of course since people change their lists a lot less in response to other peoples armies so I wouldn't be surprised to learn there are places that still ban them.

And usually what I see space marine players do to kill knights is field Salamanders with meltaguns in drop pods, but they do that against every army not just knights, backed up by centurion deathstars, imperial assassins and sometimes a knight of their own.

Thing is, you can say knights aren't balanced, but tournaments have had them around for quite a while now and while they appear in a lot of high scoring lists they don't appear in all of them, which indicates that various Take all Comers lists have been developed that can beat them and still kill non-knight armies.

[Andres]

Has the Imperium ever rediscovered an old human world and gotten a bunch of tech from it? The Tau, for instance, were prevented from getting genocided by the Imperium because they were trapped (or rather, protected) by a warp storm for a few thousand years and that let them develop a crap-ton of technology in that time. Has something similar happened to any human world that we know of where the Imperium has benefited greatly from gaining access to a crap-ton of cool new human-made tech?

[Digital Hellhound]

I doubt the present-day Imperium would accept new tech like that. At the most, it'd be hoarded by the Mechanicum and never put to general use, or just destroyed as displeasing to the Machine God. Most Imperial technology depends on the STC patterns from the Dark Age of Technology way in the past, so it's possible they lack the knowledge to even be able to mass produce new kinds of technology. Someone more knowledgeable on the Mechanicum could give a more accurate response, but I haven't heard about anything like that, and I don't think any of that new tech would be used.

During the Great Crusade, the Imperium found countless isolated worlds (that was the whole thing, really, reclaiming humanity), many with new tech, but I don't recall any mentions of that tech being adopted (except when it was based on a STC template). There's a lot of mentions of the Imperium creating or atleast altering new designs, so they weren't quite so stuck as the current one.

[TempAcc]

What about the Interex? They were certainly an advanced human civ that formed apart from the imperium when contact with terra was lost. They were kinda exterminated by Horus during the great crusade (for having different views on how to deal with the warp, xenos and other things), but they seemed to have some very interesting tech, altough they weren't that much more advanced then the imperium. At the very least, I'm pretty sure their ships were more advanced.

[LordBaal]

HE-RE-SY!
Anything not STC compliment is hereteck at worst and at best.

However I think sometimes there's times were practicality get over idiocy and the mechanicum allows for certain improvements or things, if they deem they do not deviate to much from STC. I recall reading about someone going so far as to say "yeah it is STC bu the STC was lost or something... so yeah, trust my word it's legit.. <.< ..... >.> , yeah legit" and everyone rolling with it because well, you gotta survive.

[Tack]

I remember something special about the Land Raider Crusader.
Someone wiki that.

[Loud Whispers]

Knowing the grimderpness of the 41st millennium, most advanced technology they'd come across would either be controlled by insane AI or Chaos

[nenjin]

What about the Interex? They were certainly an advanced human civ that formed apart from the imperium when contact with terra was lost. They were kinda exterminated by Horus during the great crusade (for having different views on how to deal with the warp, xenos and other things), but they seemed to have some very interesting tech, altough they weren't that much more advanced then the imperium. At the very least, I'm pretty sure their ships were more advanced.

Interex done got fucked, and their biomechanical glass men did not get incorporated into the Imperium.

[Neonivek]

In all honesty even if they found a gun that was twice as good as the old guns... it would probably take them decades before they could actually field it at best.

[Tack]

The real question is... Is it Cheaper?

IG conscripts on the table cost 3 points a man.
that's one point for the lasgun, one point for the flak vest and one point for hand grenades, and the soldier comes free.

I think they're actually cheaper than stubbers.

[Rolepgeek]

3 points? Jeezus christ, I thought they were 4. Or maybe 5 at most.

They also suck, though.

[nenjin]

40K Humanity's two greatest exports: Lasguns, and the Meat to hold those lasguns.

[Loud Whispers]

The real question is... Is it Cheaper?

IG conscripts on the table cost 3 points a man.
that's one point for the lasgun, one point for the flak vest and one point for hand grenades, and the soldier comes free.
I think they're actually cheaper than stubbers.

IIRC, when guards became astra militarum (easier to send cease and desist letters that way, because copyright) they removed General Chenkov. His send in the next wave rule was the best thing ever, even made a Chenkov list for a tournament for my club's team. This was back when the meta was doom scythes, helldrakes and GK. And then came the conscripts, who flooded the board with models. With send in the next wave you could prematurely destroy your unit/when it was destroyed send in another one. 50 models, forever, endlessly. Per conscript unit. Even outmassed swarm nids! And when the conscripts fired... THE SHEER WALL OF FLASHLIGHTS TURNED INTO A QUASAR OF MEQ ARMOUR DEVASTATION. Dreadnoughts were bogged down because they couldn't crush enough skulls, air units were useless because they couldn't strafe that many units, the defining moment has to be when the conscripts surrounded a land raider and for the entire game stopped a squad of terminators from ever leaving by clogging up every exit point with conscripts. There were so many conscripts that we were charging into flamers because it honestly didn't matter. With maximum unit spacing you could take over the entire map. If you wanted to get extra dickish, you could use that one IG general that allowed you to give infiltrator to any unit.
Including a squad of 50 conscripts.
With maximum conscripts there was basically no AP of any sorts, the only anti-tank capability was veterans with krak grenades (if force org forced to take them) and commissars or just flooding tanks with more conscripts.
And of course, flood tanks with more conscripts. The best part of the tourney was that there were no other horde armies. THEY WERE SHOWN THE ERROR OF THEIR HERETIC WAYS. SEND IN THE NEXT WAVE.

It seems GW thought this was too much fun and killed Chenkov, so you can't do it anymore. I'd look up my old list for it, but it got killed by a virus. Might have a paper one somewhere, the amount of models you could field was ridiculous, and SITNW made it viable.

[nenjin]

"I shall choke the tracks of your tanks with our dead!"

-A very successful Imperial Lord General

[Loud Whispers]

It's 4th ed canon that Chenkov crushed a nid fleet to death under the sheer weight of guardsmen bodies. He makes the red army look like the red cross.