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[Neonivek]

Failbbadon the Harmless being incredibly inefficient at doing any permanent damage to the imperiumANYTHING is kind of a running gag :v

Well that and the fact that he acts like everything he did was actually all according to plan

[LordBaal]

It's fan fiction at worst, some shady rumour of a crazy theory at best. Fake at both instances.

It's been repeatedly hinted at in the HH Novels, short stories....so no, it's the complete opposite of fan fiction. The idea comes straight from the horse's mouth.

But can't you see that's a pile of heretic lies?! That's what the ruinous powers want you to believe! 

[nenjin]

Well it IS an idea floated by the Chaos Gods. It's an argument they use to convince the Primarchs that the Big E is just on a power trip and his restrictions against psychic power are just an attempt to keep his own power supreme, so they should stuff their faces full of the power of the warp because "It's what your dad did."

Then again, the best lies contain a grain of truth, and it's believed the Emperor tricked the Chaos Gods into giving him power (the Chaos Gods believing he'd be their champion like Horus became), but then he turned it around, gave some of that power to the primarchs and refused to serve their interests, promoting the Imperial Creed instead. Chaos gets mad, throws the primarchs into the warp and the rest is dark, lie-filled history, as they say.

[LordBaal]

>.>
Nenjin please report to the nearest commissar in order to receive your well deserved... reward.

[Grim Portent]

Which leads me to the question:

If warp travel can take you anywhere, why do all of the black crusades start from the Eye of Terror?

Because the Eye is a giant warp storm, trying to just sail out of it results in large amounts of your ships being scattered, destroyed or arriving at different stretches of time spanning hundreds or thousands of years. The Cadian gate, and a few other areas, are stable exits in and out that lack the sheer randomness of the Eye, the Maelstrom and the Screaming Vortex.

On the note of time in the Eye, it flows faster, slower, backwards or not at all without any reliable way of telling what type of time is happening where until you leave and ask someone what the date is. Some Traitor marines have been in there for what seems to them a mere 300 years, other have been there for thousands.

In the Warp itself time doesn't really exist in a meaningful fashion, which makes things a bit odd, Slaanesh having existed retroactively to his/her/it's birth.

[TempAcc]

Considering how fucked up time and everything else in the eye of terror is, since leman russ entered the eye with a few space wolves, does this mean he can possibly show up anywhere, at any time? By chance, could he pop up during the horus heresy, in time to split horus in half? Or even stop the heresy from happening altogheder? Not that chaos would ever allow that to happen, but its leman russ :v! The guy who could probably bench press bloodthirsters.

He did say he'd return "in the time of wrath" to help the emperor one last time, and that prophecy is passed down through generations by the space wolves' runepriests and some of the oldest members.

[Loud Whispers]

Everything is possible Tempacc

Unfortunately like in real life, nothing interesting will happen. Geedubya will never bring back space genghis khan, space lemon wolf, space John Lennon or space metal hands because they'd get too much shit done. But theoretically, yeah he could pop up during the horus heresy. But taken down Horus? Nope, not gonna happen. Closest he could get to stopping the horus heresy is killing that bloody Chaplain of Lorgar's.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Only Ollanius Pious could taken down Horus anyways

[Grim Portent]

Considering how fucked up time and everything else in the eye of terror is, since leman russ entered the eye with a few space wolves, does this mean he can possibly show up anywhere, at any time? By chance, could he pop up during the horus heresy, in time to split horus in half? Or even stop the heresy from happening altogheder? Not that chaos would ever allow that to happen, but its leman russ :v! The guy who could probably bench press bloodthirsters.

He did say he'd return "in the time of wrath" to help the emperor one last time, and that prophecy is passed down through generations by the space wolves' runepriests and some of the oldest members.

No, if he was going to appear in the past he'd have already done so.

In addition the way that prophecy and divination work in 40k is that you see X possible futures that can occur with minor variations between each one and their ultimate end point relative to what you're divining (such as the retrieval of an artifact). The HH was the end state in every successful divination that occurred in the lead up to it save one (I think it's mentioned in one of the Blood Angels HH books), implying that it was one of the few events literally mandated by fate. Nothing can or could have stopped the Heresy from happening.

[UXLZ]

Maybe he'll go back in time to stop himself from attacking Magnus. :v

Anyway, 40K being 40K and GW being GW the continuity is in a constant state of flux, anyway.

Canon is only set in stone until someone with a smurf fetish fucks it up, anyway.

[nenjin]

Yes, the real pivot point in fate is whether the Emperor defeated or was defeated by Horus. Which in theory makes Sanguinius the persona that tipped fate in favor of the Emperor. It's not explicitly said but it's probably why Erebus tried to convert the Blood Angels to Chaos prior to the battle for Terra. He said it was because Sanguinius was beast and would help the Heresy if he turned against the Emperor. Maybe he knew more than that though, since virtually everyone else in Horus camp thought trying to corrupt Sanguinius and the Blood Angels was a waste of time.

RE: Fate and prophecy in 40k. I'm reading a (post-Heresy) novel about Ahriman right now where be basically hacks fate. He looks forward into the future, then arranges events in the past so the events he wants to see in the future occur. It's no wonder Tzeentch has such a hard on for him.

[UXLZ]

The thing is, the fight basically ended up as a draw. Emps was alive to sustain the Golden Throne and stuff but he was basically put out of commission as much as Horus was.

[TempAcc]

Horus was pretty much deleted from existence after that fight, though. Even though big E was put out of comission and is currently unable to do anything other then causing the astronomican to work and farting out warp storms, at least his soul is still around (in fragments or just horribly fucked up), while horus was pretty much stomped out of the universe and has ceased to exist for all intents and purposes, which is great since chaos would probably just bring him back, since thats what happens with chaos servants that are powerful/important enough.

Now for a rather not totally relevant question: Did Magnus ever become an actual full fledged daemon prince? While there are specific mentions of the moments in which most chaos primarchs "ascended" into full daemonhood (lorgar, fulgrim, angron, etc), I dont think I ever read anything regarding Magnus becoming a daemon. I never read anything regarding perturabo's ascension, either.

[nenjin]

The thing is, the fight basically ended up as a draw. Emps was alive to sustain the Golden Throne and stuff but he was basically put out of commission as much as Horus was.

Horus died. So that's a bit "more out of commission" than the Emperor. And it's been said many places that without the wound Sanguinius dealt Horus, the Emperor wouldn't have beaten him. Horus would have just straight up killed him and walked away from the fight to rule the Imperium.

Like most 40k victories, it was Pyrrhic at best.

[Neonivek]

Like most 40k victories, it was Pyrrhic at best

Ehhh they come in two flavors Pyrrhic and "Lets continue the endless Stalemate and break even"

[nenjin]

40k, when you consider each individual event in isolation, rarely results in a stalemate. Someone, or some planet, is usually dead at the end. The meta I agree though. Especially the Cadian Gate. Which is why I only half pay attention to "official" GWS events, because their motivations are different than the story writers.

I think that's why I've stuck with 40k for so long I think. It's a setting, not really a story in and of itself. It's not Game of Thrones and doesn't have to continually be going somewhere, shocking the senses and surpassing expectations. But all settings eventually have to evolve, and based on what's happening to Warhammer Fantasy.....I am not encouraged for 40k's future. If they actually push it to the apocalyptic end of the Imperium, the War to End All Wars, that'd be cool. If they do some Deus Ex Machina ancient alien race crap, I'll just draw a line in the sand of 40k's timeline where I stop paying attention, much like I did with Fantasy.