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[GiglameshDespair]

No it wouldn't. Not anymore than they'd add female orks.

[Radio Controlled]

Holy cow!

I just realized something...

A 40k Warhammer MMO would probably force the creators to retcon the whole No Women thing (which to admit is just their excuse for not making female marine models... which in all fairness is expensive)

I dunno, I think they'd just roll with it and not give female marines, or maye try to get in sis' of battle if they really wanted to give the female demographic a power armor dudette.

[Neonivek]

Probably

They aren't like some companies who bend to popular demand or try to attract new players. (Uhhh... that sounds harsh... I could reword it... but it would mean the same thing)

[Tack]

To give you an idea of how far behind I am... I am still operating under the idea that the Necrouns still matter.

You have come full circle.
A codex was recently released.
Necrons now matter again.


Also I won't have this heresy that clones are imperfect, Grim.
1. The cloned Horus was great, Abaddon just killed him 'cos.
2. Bileclones are indistinguishable from the original.
3. Clones are the only real method of DE reproduction.

[Grim Portent]

To give you an idea of how far behind I am... I am still operating under the idea that the Necrouns still matter.

You have come full circle.
A codex was recently released.
Necrons now matter again.


Also I won't have this heresy that clones are imperfect, Grim.
1. The cloned Horus was great, Abaddon just killed him 'cos.
2. Bileclones are indistinguishable from the original.
3. Clones are the only real method of DE reproduction.

1) It was described as 'mewling' in the old chaos codex.
2) Bile took several thousand years to get skilled enough to do that and needs to use more than a little chaos tech for it, plus being taught by DE haemoncli.
3) DE half-born aren't ever referred to as clones, don't have identical features or physical capabilities. My assumption is they're artificially incubated from egg and sperm cells that have been harvested from other eldar.

Besides, we know that human cloning tech isn't good, because it's been outright stated in the RPGs and some of the tabletop rulebooks over the years, they can't even grow a healthy arm for people, let alone a sane and sentient human being. Add in the fact that even the Emperor could only barely create the primarchs and I can't see any magos biologis having the skill to clone a primarch from ten millenia old blood and body parts.

[TempAcc]

I dont even get how the chaos forces still rally under abbadon for dark crusades. He's clearly inefficient as fuck, having failed several times over against a weakened imperium, and is inferior to every single chaos primarch. Angron could probably tear him apart with his pinky, Magnus could probably fold him 9999 times in 4 different dimensions using his mind, Fulgrim would probably turn him into mincemeat in half a second, etc.

Altough it probably makes sense in context that the chaos primarchs dont lead dark crusades, since they probably cant be directly controlled/commanded by chaos, for several different reasons, only manipulated or indirectly led into it, like Magnus and Fulgrim.

[Neonivek]

In all fairness TempAcc if you asked all the Primarchs who really controls the Chaos... I am sure they would all say they do... and if not I am sure their answer will be "When the curtains close it will be I who controls them"

[Grim Portent]

I dont even get how the chaos forces still rally under abbadon for dark crusades. He's clearly inefficient as fuck, having failed several times over against a weakened imperium, and is inferior to every single chaos primarch. Angron could probably tear him apart with his pinky, Magnus could probably fold him 9999 times in 4 different dimensions using his mind, Fulgrim would probably turn him into mincemeat in half a second, etc.

Altough it probably makes sense in context that the chaos primarchs dont lead dark crusades, since they probably cant be directly controlled/commanded by chaos, for several different reasons, only manipulated or indirectly led into it, like Magnus and Fulgrim.

It's been explained, in recent material anyway, not sure about older stuff as the oldest chaos 'dex I have is the 4th edition one, that Abaddon's Black Crusades have not actually been intended to destroy the Imperium. Each time he's just been doing little things, like acquiring Drach'Nyen, destroying a naval shipyard world to undermine the future stability of the Cadian Gate so on and so forth. He even cameos in the Night Lords novels and essentially says that he needn't justify or explain himself to anyone else but things have been going according to plan.

Though the chaos primarchs do occasionally do stuff. Angron led a vast army of World Eaters and Khorne Daemons in the first War for Armageddon, Fulgrim was out and about several millenia ago when he stabbed Guilleman, Magnus led an attack on Fenris, Mortarion was involved in a fight with the Grey Knights so he must have been out getting stuff done.

Really the reason the primarchs don't lead Black Crusades is that only the unaligned ones can really lead all the forces of chaos, and Perturabo is too busy brooding in his citadel on Medrengard to do anything, while Lorgar has been meditating for the past ten thousand years in his personal shrine. Alpharius/Omegon are doing the standard Alpha Legion thing and roaming around fighting the Imperium from within, though Alpharius may be dead.

EDIT: Personally I'm inclined to view Abaddon's excuse for having failed to destroy Cadia each time as something of a retcon, but the 3rd edition codex might have mentioned it or something.

[Grim Portent]

Double post.

[Rolepgeek]

No it wouldn't. Not anymore than they'd add female orks.

All orks are female.

Or rather, all Orks are hermaphrodite/genderless.

[nenjin]

Abaddon's rationale for the Black Crusades is something along the lines of: we fight because that's what we were born to do. The Black Crusade is an offer to all renegades to have the same kind of martial fraternity they had in the Imperium, just without the Emperor or anyone telling them what to do. Defeating the Imperium and reclaiming the galaxy is the end goal, but the short term goals are just bleeding the Imperium and living as warriors free of any masters, including the Chaos Gods. Whether you partake of the Chaos God's offerings is up the the individual renegade, but Abbadon doesn't serve at their whims. It's laid out in the novel "The Talon of Horus."

[Grim Portent]

Abaddon's rationale for the Black Crusades is something along the lines of: we fight because that's what we were born to do. The Black Crusade is an offer to all renegades to have the same kind of martial fraternity they had in the Imperium, just without the Emperor or anyone telling them what to do. Defeating the Imperium and reclaiming the galaxy is the end goal, but the short term goals are just bleeding the Imperium and living as warriors free of any masters, including the Chaos Gods. Whether you partake of the Chaos God's offerings is up the the individual renegade, but Abbadon doesn't serve at their whims. It's laid out in the novel "The Talon of Horus."

I really wish GW could decide on a single way to portray the different chaos lords. Abaddon's goals and plan changes from book to book, and is different from the codex explanation.

Huron similarly suffers massive shifts in personality and description depending on who's writing him.

They should really just get a few of their fluff writers/black library authors to draft up some basic notes on personality and goals for them so anyone adding them to a story can doublecheck how they're supposed to act.

[Neonivek]

Well they are Chaotic...

Then again outright saying that their nature means that they will be constantly shifting goals and personalities with only a few details staying the same... could have been an interesting concept.

[nenjin]

Yeah, it's unfortunate that the work is so collaborative at times. Having read all the published Horus Heresy novels to date, where by now each Primarch has been written by at least three different people depending on the story they show up in, tone and characterization can change pretty dramatically. To the point I swear some writers have said Sanguinius has blond hair, while others write he has raven black hair. You could I suppose chalk that up to the classic "mythical details" part of 40k, but if the HH is an attempt to show things as they really were, the least the authors could do is agree on WTF color their hair is. It's also hard to keep the character of the Primarchs in mind when they've been passed through so many hands. Only really the broadest generalities stay the same, but language choice, how sly or humorous a primarch is, how angry....I mean, I'm reading one right now where Angron forms cogent sentences and calls people brother and laughs....versus the first few HH novels where he's literally a beast and can barely talk without "ugggnnnnn......rrrrrrrrr........gggrrrraaaaa....." inserted between each actual word, and crushing some World Eater skulls.

I'd like to think their personalities are so big, so prolific, that they are discernible regardless of who is writing them. But that turns out you end up with all the primarchs acting and sounding the same.

Maybe I'll make a fun exercise, go crawling through my HH for Primach quotes, remove the names and ask people to guess who said it.

[Grim Portent]

I think they could have made it work by sitting down and working out some character traits and mannerisms the major characters who were going to be important in the novels should have.

Wouldn't help much with the less talented writers, but it would probably make the decent ones seem more consistent with each other.