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[Rolepgeek]

I never said the protagonists win. Just that the antagonists lose. Like you said, it's grimdark, everyone can end up losing.

Also, I'm pretty sure the reason the Imperium is so powerful is because it's so huge, which happened because the Emprah.

Lastly, and not really a point of contention, just my opinion, I really don't see it as being inevitable that the Tau technology will turn on them(barring Chaos fuckery and the like). Also: they also get rid of competitors when they can. They just happen to assimilate most of them, instead of committing genocide. Also their tactics are unique compared to most factions not in the sense of combined arms, but in the sense of 'who gives a shit about holding position? fuck that we're outta here', and their aversion to casualties and unnecessary risks. Only other faction that fights that way, really, as far as I know, is the Eldar.

Don't forget that Necrons aren't just Tomb Kings IN SPACE, they're Undead Alien Robots IN SPACE.

[Loud Whispers]

Also, I'm pretty sure the reason the Imperium is so powerful is because it's so huge, which happened because the Emprah.

The Imperium is not for a want of good generals, it's all logistics. Even the Empy's greatest contribution to the Imperium has been to logistics, he is a galactic lighthouse for all travel.

Lastly, and not really a point of contention, just my opinion, I really don't see it as being inevitable that the Tau technology will turn on them(barring Chaos fuckery and the like).

It is inevitable, it has happened to every technologically advanced species in the 40k universe. The Old ones had the warp turn against them, the Necrontyr became trapped in their technology, the Imperium got betrayed by their technology on a massive scale twice with rogue AIs and the men of iron [excluding all instances of chaos fuckery], every alien civ from the Horus Heresy up to the 41st millennium that makes use of advanced AIs is either mentioned as having already been taken over or inevitably going to be taken over by the AI... It's inevitable. It's why the Imperium use machine spirits and are a lot more careful with their research, because they've made their mistakes. The tau are going to go off the technological deep end.

Also: they also get rid of competitors when they can. They just happen to assimilate most of them, instead of committing genocide.

Lolololololololololololololololololol

Also their tactics are unique compared to most factions not in the sense of combined arms, but in the sense of 'who gives a shit about holding position? fuck that we're outta here',

Like I said, combined arms and mechanized warfare. Which every faction except conscript spam uses.

and their aversion to casualties and unnecessary risks. Only other faction that fights that way, really, as far as I know, is the Eldar.

Which every faction except nids and conscript spam uses.

Don't forget that Necrons aren't just Tomb Kings IN SPACE, they're Undead Alien Robots IN SPACE.

No they're just space tomb kings now. 3rd ed were the death alien robots.

[Loud Whispers]

LW, he said assimilate. I'd like to point out they do assimilate them. Just... y'know, not in a nice way, oftentimes.

Brainwashing and such.

Genocide, the bluberries dig it.

[Rolepgeek]

LW, he said assimilate. I'd like to point out they do assimilate them. Just... y'know, not in a nice way, oftentimes.

Brainwashing and such.

Genocide, the bluberries dig it.

Only for shit like Orks and Tyranids.

Most everything else is put to work for The Greater Good.

EDIT: Machine Spirits are really old AIs, basically, by the way....

[nenjin]

EDIT: Machine Spirits are really old AIs, basically, by the way....

This guy, amirite?

[Rolepgeek]

It's what I read, and as far as I know, it's true. Good an explanation as any, in any case. Why the hell wouldn't a really old AI be grouchy and require appeasement?

EDIT: Allow me to explain myself better. Some Machine Spirits are really old AIs. Like, the ones in Land Raiders and such. Not Lasgun Machine Spirits.

[Remuthra]

It's what I read, and as far as I know, it's true. Good an explanation as any, in any case. Why the hell wouldn't a really old AI be grouchy and require appeasement?

That's debatable. It's also been suggested that machine spirits are all the influence of a C'Tan called the Void Dragon, who is rumored to be the Omnissiah on Mars.

[Digital Hellhound]

The writers can't seem to decide if machine spirits actually exist or not, anyway. Sometimes it's portrayed as useless techpriest rituals, sometimes it's actually there.

EDIT: Typoing all up in dis thang

[Radio Controlled]

Hey guys, great that we have some discussion going here, but just a quick tip: see those links in the OP? Use them! Instead of talking out of our collective asses and going by half-remembered truths, looking up and quoting verifiable info cuts down on a lot of crap.

[nenjin]

Hey guys, great that we have some discussion going here, but just a quick tip: see those links in the OP? Use them! Instead of talking out of our collective asses and going by half-remembered truths, looking up and quoting verifiable info cuts down on a lot of crap.

95% of 40k lore, canon or not, is someone talking out of their ass :p

[Radio Controlled]

Hey guys, great that we have some discussion going here, but just a quick tip: see those links in the OP? Use them! Instead of talking out of our collective asses and going by half-remembered truths, looking up and quoting verifiable info cuts down on a lot of crap.

95% of 40k lore, canon or not, is someone talking out of their ass :p

As much as I would like to claim otherwise, my conscience and general experience with 40K lore demands me to say you might have a point :v

[Mictlantecuhtli]

My megahours of Lexicanum reading would disagree. Lots of things are up to interpretation, but there's so many sources that you can go right to the horses mouth on an uncountable number of details.

[Loud Whispers]

Only for shit like Orks and Tyranids.
Most everything else is put to work for The Greater Good.

Lolololololololololololol
Need to get your head out of the ethereal propaganda machine m8
It's no coincidence that when a tau diplomat sees a hive world with more humans in it than there are tau in the whole subsector the hive goes empty. GIT RIDDY FOR SOME CULTURAL EXCHANGE
TAU VA TAU KEK
I HEARD YOU LIKE THE FIRE CASTE

EDIT: Machine Spirits are really old AIs, basically, by the way....

What I know from it is that at one point a loyalist word bearer who was wrecking an alien world that made extensive use of artificial intelligences, he remarked that it would be inevitable that one day the AI would turn on them unlike the machine spirits. Also makes sense as to why things go murderously wrong when the machine spirits defect to chaos.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Now my question is, do dreadnoughts have machine spirits?

[Remuthra]

Now my question is, do dreadnoughts have machine spirits?

Probably not, because Dreadnoughts are SC1 Dragoons.