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[Radio Controlled]

I think Khorne loves him some orks though. Remember that Chaos gods don't necessarily need direct worship, the emotions themselves are enough to 'feed' them.

I'm pretty certain the Orks eat their own rage and leave the scraps for Gork and Mork to devour; there'd be nothing left for skull collector.

I'm not gonna claim I'm absolutely certain on this, but this source says the following:

His domain covers the most basic and brutal of sentient emotions and actions, such as hate, anger, rage, war and killing. Every act of killing or murder in the material universe gives Khorne power; the more senseless and destructive, the better.

So yeah, this seems to indicate that ork slaughter does indeed feed Khorne.

Oh look a warhammer 40k thread.

I does not approve of Tau storyline advancing shenanigans. >.>

But then again it's certainly halfway possible. I just don't like it. Plus Kroot have Warp Engines of a sort and I still don't get why the Tau aren't reverse engineering those.

You mean, the stuff we proposed/thought of? If yes, why exactly?

And maybe the Kroot don't want to give them their engine technology? Don't ask me why, could be a variety of reasons.

[Loud Whispers]

So yeah, this seems to indicate that ork slaughter does indeed feed Khorne.

Does stepping on grass feed Khorne?

[Remuthra]

As to the above, the Daemons codex seems to indicate Khorne actually revives the orks in question every day so his daemons can fight them, so I doubt Orks don't give Khorne power.

[GiglameshDespair]

That would also suggest the necrons power Khorne. So do the tyranids. Hmm.

----

As the Kroot are a protectorate, I don't think they could refuse to give them their warp drives.

[Rolepgeek]

Tyranids create Warp Shadow, so I doubt they feed the Chaos Gods.

The Necrons hate the Warp and everything to do with it, and were basically made to try and fight the Warp(which is fed by living things, and is the hell it is now because the Old Ones used it as a weapon in their war against the C'Tan, and since Orks were made to fight the C'Tan, and have a unique(but still applicable) relationship woth the Warp, I doubt they don't feed Khorne. Probably not as much as forces of Chaos or humans fighting, but still.

Kroot are technically mercenaries, actually, and give their services to other races as well, if hired. I'm guessing the Tau just haven't bothered yet since they think of the Kroot as barbaric(cannibalism and not being Tau does that. They can be pricks at times).

As for what I disagree with and why;
The overstretch thing is something I agree with; they're supposed to be starting their Third Sphere Expansion anyway, and without good FTL travel, they're going to have difficulty with that. However, as their technology is still advancing, and they will be grabbing a rather large amount of Imperial Technology, and they have the Nicassar/human psykers(the Black Ships ain't collecting no more on Tau worlds, so they'll have to find a way to deal with psykers), so they stand a good chance of developing some better means, though they'll probably try and avoid the horror-circus that is Imperial travel. Don't forget; because of their crappy FTL travel, each world is a lot more self-sufficient than in the Imperium. And more efficient, typically with less people. They'll be doing a lot of 'terraforming' and population control on newly assimilated Imperial worlds, I can tell you that much. Which may, in turn, start to slow them down, but they're efficient enough that I doubt it will make much of a difference before they'd be forced to slow down anyway.

Also, Giglamesh, the Horizon Accelerator Engine(near light-speed) was what allowed the Second Sohere Expansion; nearly a thousand years ago.

They've come a long way since then. It says in the codex that their propulsion systems were enhanced further to reach "hitherto unthinkable velocities".

They can probably travel significantly faster than light now, especially since the time between the official start of the Third Sphere Expansion, and the claim of the first new Sept is less than a third of a year. Or, if ou get the feeling that that one had been in progress for a while anyway(like I do), the annexation of T'Ros/Taros took about a year. So yeah, they have FTL now. Not as good as Warp travel(when you're lucky with the Warp, that is...), mind you, but they certainly have it. They probably have FTL communication too, through the use of ansibles or something similar. Look it up. It's a thing that's theoretically possible, with quantum entanglement.

As to the whole Chaos cults thing; why would there necessarily be more activity? Especially since the water caste and the better living quality means people feel less of a need to turn to chaos cults, and the instilled fear of mutants and psykers instilled in the Imperial Populace, while the Tau aren't close enough to the Warp to turn to Chaos through 'natural' means. There would likely be a brief reactionary surge with psykers not being persecuted as much, right before the Fire Caste suppressed any signs of Chaos rather messily. And then the Ethereals would proclaim what was to be done about psykers henceforth. Obviously the Tau know about the Warp, with the way their ships get so fast(I think they still use the Warp to do it, though they skim over it rather than diving through), and they know what psykers are from the Nicassar, so they'd probably try and recruit psykers and begin their own training programs. Lot of trial and error, but they'd find a way to get it fairly effective, eventually, without resorting to brutality as harsh as the Imperium. Probably sterilize any psykers they found, though, and take them whether they wanted to be taken or not, but after that part, a little different than the Imperium. Plus they'd probably do it in a gentler way. Might eventually just give up on them as being too risky to use, though.

But yeah, Chaos would be quelled when it was seen, and the populace would probably be educated and taught about the dangers and appropriate reactions, rather than simply told to hate. This could go well, or badly. Depends.

Finally, there doesn't need to be, and in my opinion shouldn't be, more disagreements within the main Empire. The Farsight Enclaves already exist, and the Third Sphere Expansion bringing the Tau in contact with them(they're the faction of Tau that 'grew up' as you put it) and the subsequent conflict between them should be enough. Other splinter factions might exist(I have a private setting in which the Tau sent seed ships to start other 'spheres' to colonize distant places and eventually meet with the main Empire again; only one of them lasted to 'present day' and they're rather desparately trying to carve a path back to avoid being overwhelmed) that have disagreements with the Ethereals or the like, but a. Ethereals settle their disagreements with duels, that's what Honor Blades are all about, and B. their hold is simply too strong in the main empire.

Also, the entire reason I like the Tau, beyond having realistic battle tactics, is their ideology. That while sometimes awful things must be done for the Greater Good, there is usually a third option other than 'adopt cruel policies' and 'let the empire crumble', as long as you're willing to look for it. So having them grow up and become just as grimdark as everyone else ruins the entire point of them.

Besides which, them being the naive race adds to the grimdark in it's own way; in the real world they'd be hated and despised for being inhumane and relentless, in addition to being propaganda-mongers, but in 40k they're the nice guys and wide-eyed idealists. The very fact that they're like children with pistols playing in a room full of serial molesters and eldritch horrors without realizing it is meant to give a sense of scale and perspective for the whole thing, a stepping stone so you can once again realise just how fucked up the galaxy is.

[Rolepgeek]

Also I don't know if you noticed but I'm a Tau-fan.

I might disagree with some of the other stuff you were proposing for what would happen, mostly the concrete examples of who's fighting who(I figure the Necrons'll fight Chaos while Orks sense the Warp Shadow and gather for a WAAAGH, but that's just opinion), but the Tau were the only ones I knew enough about to object to with any sort of logic

[nenjin]

AFAIK, any living entity with any sort of emotion feeds the 4 Gods of Chaos. But I believe it's a scale. Eldar, because they "feels" the most, had the most impact on the Warp and birthed Slaanesh. Humanity, while not feeling to the degree the Eldar do, have numbers on their side, plus mindless violence, lust, the inherent connection to change and the fear of death (the defiance of which powers Nurgle.) So the Warp can survive and even prosper off humanity alone.

But I think this is where we get into canon conflicts, because I could have sworn reading that Orks, unlike most living things, leave no impression in the Warp. IE their emotions don't leave an imprint in the Warp, ie they do not feed the Chaos Gods. Plus, with their numbers and breeding, if Orks did contribute skulls to the skull thrown, they'd be the chosen of Khorne I think. Since they outnumber humanity like 5 to 1, and will fight even when there's no one else around to fight but each other.

Low-level Tryranid grunts don't leave an imprint either, although I think higher tier ones might. Tau, who I actively avoid reading anything about since their mere existence pisses me off, can exhibit human-like emotions when they go rogue, so I think they're still a source of sustenance for the Warp, just on a lower frequency and intensity than humanity, and waaaaayyyy below the Eldar.

Necrons I don't know about, but seeing how ancient they are, it makes sense to me they'd oppose the Warp. Plus since they're just souls that get stuffed into a new container constantly, I'm not sure they ever die and join the Warp.

[Rolepgeek]

Orks have their own unique relationship to the Warp, or at least psychic abilities. That's how Warbosses and Nobs get so big, why their equipment works(if enough Orks believe it, it happens), why their red things do go fastah, how Weirdboyz work, how WAAAGHs can start, etc. etc.

Since you admittedly know almost nothing about the Tau(and haven't explained why you hate them); they have emotions. It has nothing to do with the intensity of their emotions(for the Tau, at least). They just don't have much of a Warp presence; they are, basically, barring some theories about Ethereals, psychically mute. It's hard to even find them using the Warp. Much more resistant to the influences of Chaos because of that.

Also, it'a not just about having an emotion. What does the emotion 'peaceful contentment' feed? What about joyous surprise? Platonic friendship? Why do they need worshippers if emotions in general will do? It's A. a little more complicated than that, and B. as much about psychic presence and ability as anything else; thus why Eldar, natural psykers, are so vulnerable in their natural state.

And again, Necrons were basically made specifically to oppose the Warp, and most of them don't really have souls, as far as I'm aware. And I'm pretty sure the C'Tan claim their souls when those that do actually finally die.

[nenjin]

Orks have their own unique relationship to the Warp, or at least psychic abilities. That's how Warbosses and Nobs get so big, why their equipment works(if enough Orks believe it, it happens), why their red things do go fastah, how Weirdboyz work, how WAAAGHs can start, etc. etc.

It's never been explained how any of that works. The only theory I've seen is that weirdboyz, due to their incompatibility with the Warp, act like pure conduits for its power. Which they either channel correctly, or explode when there's too much flowing through them. If humans are like a tube made from a spounge, through which the Warp leaks and eventually saturates, Orks are a like a frozen pipe, which is impermeable up to the point where it fails structurally and explodes.

Maybe in a 3rd+ Edition Ork Codex, they cite the Warp as a reason for their abilities. But I've not yet read it in the thousands and thousands of pages of fiction I've read. Just like the Eldar created Slaanesh, I've always believed the Orks created Gork and Mork through the same means, by the Warp reacting to their desires and motivations. But that, too, has never been postulated anywhere in any fiction or canon that I've read. Personally, at the end of the day, I like Orks more when they're powered by the WAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH as some sort of shared psychic phenomena, than I do as just another variety of utilizing the Warp.

Since you admittedly know almost nothing about the Tau(and haven't explained why you hate them); they have emotions. It has nothing to do with the intensity of their emotions(for the Tau, at least). They just don't have much of a Warp presence; they are, basically, barring some theories about Ethereals, psychically mute. It's hard to even find them using the Warp. Much more resistant to the influences of Chaos because of that.

Awww, I think someone's fanboi is getting offended.

Why I hate them: they're not cool. They're not metal. They don't fit anything about the 40k universe. They were a blatant attempt to get more of a Japanese buy in, from the mecha look of their battle suits, to their completely not 40k philosophy that's Eastern inspired. On the one hand, it's nice that there's anything to counteract the stultifying nature of the 40k metastory. On the other, they're not cool. Every 40k story I've read involving the Tau is ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ material, where the Tau lose because "they're a young race and don't understand how things like fighting humans works until they've fucked up at least once."

What about not-grim-dark-emotions and the Warp

They have a place. The fiction is rife with references to entities in the Warp that are not completely evil, slavering daemons thirsting for the suffering and misery of others. That they're birthed from different, more wholesome emotions.

It's just that no one writes about them in particular. Because "content" and "nice" and "happy" and "friendship" aren't what 40k is about, in the same way that "Zen, unflappable peacemongers with a desire to rule" is boring as shit in a genre about war and brutality. And Warp Entities White Knighting for people doesn't make for good fiction either. 40k is full of Deux Ex Machina crap, but I think friendly Warp entities is pushing it because the Warp is always a dangerous place that's never helped anyone directly, regardless of what's floating around in it.

The Warp is a mix of emotions, where the most intense ones tend to rise to the fore and try to eat ships and possess psykers. That said, every emotion is represented in the Warp, but not in the way that anyone thrown directly into it would ever have the chance to notice, before they were ripped asunder.

And that's not even getting Ian Watson, the Star Child and all those positive uses of the Warp. (Which thank The Emperor has long since been deemed Hereticus.)

[Rolepgeek]

Yes, my apologies for being offended when someone insults the faction I like. You would obviously never try to defend anything you like, of course. You're above all that. >.>

I suppose you think 40K should be entirely grimdark stories about death and despair and everything falling apart, without room for diversity or realism, then? And real quick: you thinking they aren't cool is your opinion. I, on the other hand, and enough other people that there's things like the Advanced Tau Tactica forums, think they're awesome. A lot of which comes from the fact that they aren't all "Death and destruction and grimness grrr see how tough and 'metal' we are grrr".

To me, at least, their philosophy is just realism-inspired. They use actual battle tactics. They resemble what humanity in real life would probably end up doing if they took to the stars. They seem to me like the faction that's meant to say "here's what would happen if the 40k universe was real and we were all in it". You thinking they're a blatant attempt at anything beyond trying to have a foil for the universe, is your opinion, and I disagree.

You've just been reading the wrong stories then, because there's plenty of books focused on the Tau, where they win. The focus of the story is the protagonists so of course they'll win. That's typically how it works. If you aren't reading stories about a specific faction, any other faction will probably end up losing.

As for Orks. Have you read their codex? My friend let me read his, and I just tried to paraphrase what I remember of what the codex said.

[Remuthra]

Necrons I don't know about, but seeing how ancient they are, it makes sense to me they'd oppose the Warp. Plus since they're just souls that get stuffed into a new container constantly, I'm not sure they ever die and join the Warp.

Necrons don't actually have souls, as the Deceiver consumed them all during biotransference, which is the main reason for their immortality, their immunity to warp influence, and their lack of defense against psykers.

[nenjin]

Yes, my apologies for being offended when someone insults the faction I like. You would obviously never try to defend anything you like, of course. You're above all that. >.>

People have been talking shit about the faction I like for over 20 years. After a while, it stops bugging you. These new kids, with their exceptionally thin, blue skin, I tells ya.

The focus of the story is the protagonists so of course they'll win. That's typically how it works. If you aren't reading stories about a specific faction, any other faction will probably end up losing.

Fair enough. Although I'd say at least 30% of Imperial, Chaos or SM fiction is about them losing, ultimately.

To me, at least, their philosophy is just realism-inspired. They use actual battle tactics. They resemble what humanity in real life would probably end up doing if they took to the stars. They seem to me like the faction that's meant to say "here's what would happen if the 40k universe was real and we were all in it". You thinking they're a blatant attempt at anything beyond trying to have a foil for the universe, is your opinion, and I disagree.

Yeah, because that's why I enjoy 40k.....realism. And at the rate RL is going in America, I don't really think the Imperium is unrealistically-inspired at this point, either.

As for Orks. Have you read their codex? My friend let me read his, and I just tried to paraphrase what I remember of what the codex said.

Not since the 90s. Orks aren't exactly well-represented in the fiction, either.

[Rolepgeek]

I'm guessing the faction you like is Imperium, right?

Or something in the Imperium?

Guessing Space Marines gives me about a 50-50 chance of being right in any case. >.> Since you don't know the lore about several other factions, ruling those out makes it even more likely.

For fiction...yeah, I figured about as much, at least for Imperial Guard. Losing or getting pyrrhic victories is sorta their job, unfortunately. >.>

Besides, I was fairly sure Tau have been around a while. Maybe not First Edition 'a while', but I think they were in 2nd Edition, at least. Not sure.

Unfortunately, because Imperium is so incredibly popular, other factions don't get enough good official fiction written for them.

Also: It's fine for you to not like any faction, whether I like it or not. But did you really expect me to respond favorably when you say things like "Awwwww, I think someone's fanboi is getting offended."

Finally: If you've been playing that long, I have to ask: did you play Rogue Trader/First Edition? Because I'm pretty sure 40k wasn't all that 'metal' back then, what with ork musicians and beer-brewers and space-dwarves and whatnot.

[nenjin]

Besides, I was fairly sure Tau have been around a while. Maybe not First Edition 'a while', but I think they were in 2nd Edition, at least. Not sure.

4th Edition, IIRC. They are a new race, in every sense of the word.

Also: It's fine for you to not like any faction, whether I like it or not. But did you really expect me to respond favorably when you say things like "Awwwww, I think someone's fanboi is getting offended."

I calls it as I sees it. All I said was their existence made me unhappy. You went whole hog with that statement.

Finally: If you've been playing that long, I have to ask: did you play Rogue Trader/First Edition? Because I'm pretty sure 40k wasn't all that 'metal' back then, what with ork musicians and beer-brewers and space-dwarves and whatnot.

1st Edition Realms of Chaos makes current 40k, of any flavor, any race, look like Candy Land crossed with WoW. The original Space Marine novel? So hardcore it has been all but disavowed by GWS as having ever existed, it was that brutal. Newer editions of 40k stripped out the goofier elements, basically anything that was thematically fun, and replaced it with straight-laced grimdark. (Apparently SPACE DWARVES isn't metal enough, but SPACE ELVES, SPACE ORKS and SPACE TOMB KINGS are.)

[Loud Whispers]

Necrons I don't know about, but seeing how ancient they are, it makes sense to me they'd oppose the Warp. Plus since they're just souls that get stuffed into a new container constantly, I'm not sure they ever die and join the Warp.

And again, Necrons were basically made specifically to oppose the Warp, and most of them don't really have souls, as far as I'm aware. And I'm pretty sure the C'Tan claim their souls when those that do actually finally die.

The necrons as a species weren't created to destroy the warp or anything, they spent their entire existence as the necrontyr fighting the warp and when they were tricked by the C'Tan into become death metal robots they continued fighting the warp. In old and newcrons they're soulless so Chaos gets no souls from them nor emotions; in Oldcrons the Necrons were especially annoying for Chaos because they both harvested souls from the same food source leading to one starving the other. Oldcrons and newcrons still both have things like additional pylons which they use to separate the material world from the warpy, fucked up one.

Since you admittedly know almost nothing about the Tau(and haven't explained why you hate them); they have emotions. It has nothing to do with the intensity of their emotions(for the Tau, at least). They just don't have much of a Warp presence; they are, basically, barring some theories about Ethereals, psychically mute. It's hard to even find them using the Warp. Much more resistant to the influences of Chaos because of that.

There's a hilarious bit in one of the DoW games where a chaos sorcerer is trying to contact a blueberry and the blueberry just shouts at someone to turn off whatever's making that ringing noise.

Awww, I think someone's fanboi is getting offended.
Why I hate them: they're not cool. They're not metal. They don't fit anything about the 40k universe. They were a blatant attempt to get more of a Japanese buy in, from the mecha look of their battle suits, to their completely not 40k philosophy that's Eastern inspired.

Why I like them: Someone else needs to get their shit kicked in other than the Imperial Guard for once.

Yes, my apologies for being offended when someone insults the faction I like. You would obviously never try to defend anything you like, of course. You're above all that. >.>

Remove blueberry from the premises

To me, at least, their philosophy is just realism-inspired. They use actual battle tactics. They resemble what humanity in real life would probably end up doing if they took to the stars. They seem to me like the faction that's meant to say "here's what would happen if the 40k universe was real and we were all in it". You thinking they're a blatant attempt at anything beyond trying to have a foil for the universe, is your opinion, and I disagree.

They are just a proto-Imperium. Their battle tactics aren't anything new; combined arms mechanized warfare, which is used by virtually every single army that isn't just Imperial conscript spam.
They are a young race. They haven't reached the point where their technology has turned on them, they haven't got to the point where their Empire is large enough to actually have the logistics to deal with a trillion cultists and separatists seeded across every world. The adeptus ministorum is not the most powerful force in the milky way galaxy in the 41st millennium because of its incalculable soldiers [that helps], its logistics system is what wins the day. The Imperium took to the stars with the same philosophy and turned in on itself. Also think of another thing; why did the humans become so successful in Universe? By not taking chances and blowing up every other possible competitor humanity has built their galaxy spanning Empire. If a warp storm had not delayed the Imperium the tau would have been destroyed before they were a threat. The tau do not do the same, only occasionally derping around by sterilizing humans or doing kroot barbecues. There isn't really anything realism-based in your philosophy when the universe is that grimdark.

You've just been reading the wrong stories then, because there's plenty of books focused on the Tau, where they win. The focus of the story is the protagonists so of course they'll win. That's typically how it works. If you aren't reading stories about a specific faction, any other faction will probably end up losing.

The Imperial Guard are punching bags, glorious punching bags. Also that's typically how it doesn't work, least of all in this setting. Grimdark means everyone loses!