Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Neonivek]

The 'Not Asshole' faction of 40k would also split apart near immediately since they all have huge differences of morality and ethics that make working together, even to defeat the literal soul eating monsters from another dimension, highly distasteful to them all.

... since when did WH40k have a non-asshole faction?

Also pretty sure more than the porcelain god god is an existential threat to chaos. Both the 'crons and the 'nids could manage it, iirc. Or at least the oldcrons could, and I'm assuming the new ones are able to do something similar.

You don't understand...

Being a total asshole is the only way you do not immediately and instantly die in this setting... canonically... in multiple and several ways...

In fact... there are groups of people who have super asshole abilities that protects them from Chaos.

And once again a joke I made... was canonical... even though I explained it as over the top and silly as possible... It is pretty spot on.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Also, even without a true victory against Chaos, killing everybody who worships it and banishing any warp predators that come through the gate is functionally identical and would slowly draw down even the Chaos Gods.

[nenjin]

Also, even without a true victory against Chaos, killing everybody who worships it and banishing any warp predators that come through the gate is functionally identical and would slowly draw down even the Chaos Gods.

Which is why sentient AIs were banned by the Imperium. JUST AS PLANNED.

[Andres]

Also pretty sure more than the porcelain god god is an existential threat to chaos. Both the 'crons and the 'nids could manage it, iirc. Or at least the oldcrons could, and I'm assuming the new ones are able to do something similar.

Not really. Tyranids and Necrons are too weak and have too many enemies to ever get to the stage where they could harm Chaos. It's like saying a baby flailing a knife around can hypothetically kill you - technically true, but the odds of it happening are very close to zero and can be easily prevented.

[misko27]

The 'Not Asshole' faction of 40k would also split apart near immediately since they all have huge differences of morality and ethics that make working together, even to defeat the literal soul eating monsters from another dimension, highly distasteful to them all.

... since when did WH40k have a non-asshole faction?

This is why the EXACT words of my original post is as follows

We could try to unite the "Asshole" and "Not Asshole" factions in WH40k, but the asshole faction would split apart pretty quickly due to not having a common enemy.

[Grim Portent]

Ah, I just thought you were using asshole to refer to the 'chaotic' races and non-asshole to refer to the 'order' ones since people usually try to make arguments based on the idea that the Tau, Eldar and humans aren't really evil and should work together on that basis. 

[Frumple]

Evil they may or may not be, assholes they definitely are.

[Teneb]

While GW does love making Chaos win, in 40k Chaos can actually lose. If any of: Tyranids, Necrons, Orkz win, then Chaos loses hard. Eldar (craftworld/harlequins, because the others don't have a wincon) and Imperium is kinda hazy.

Imperium isn't hazy. The reason Chaos ganged up on the Emperor so hard to the point of them inhabiting the same body is because unlike every other being the galaxy, he was an existential threat to their existence.

Even without the Emperor, the Imperium could still defeat Chaos. The general setting canon is that the Imperium can beat any one of its enemies, but it can't because it doesn't just have one enemy. If the Imperium could somehow defeat all its other enemies* they could eventually defeat Chaos, though perhaps not completely eradicate it. With no external enemies to fight, the Imperium could focus all its efforts on fortifying Cadia, combing their worlds for heresy, and evolving to become Eldar-like psykers, denying Chaos from ever getting a permanent foothold in the Materium ever again.

*There are three ways the Imperium can win:
1. Russ finds the Fruit of Life and resurrects the Emperor
2. The Omnicopeia is discovered
3. Humanity evolves into a fully psychic race

Thing is: humans turning into eldar-esque psykers would strengthen Chaos, and the Emperor ascending into a full god would make him count as Chaos too... just because the Big Four don't win, doesn't mean that Chaos doesn't win.

Also pretty sure more than the porcelain god god is an existential threat to chaos. Both the 'crons and the 'nids could manage it, iirc. Or at least the oldcrons could, and I'm assuming the new ones are able to do something similar.

Not really. Tyranids and Necrons are too weak and have too many enemies to ever get to the stage where they could harm Chaos. It's like saying a baby flailing a knife around can hypothetically kill you - technically true, but the odds of it happening are very close to zero and can be easily prevented.

Not quite. It's pretty heavily implied that the Hive Fleets causing massive damage to the Imperium and Tau are just scout forces, and the barely-awake Necrons can destroy star systems on demand with their tech and use C'Tan as pokemon. Fully awake Necrons are pretty much an instant game over to Chaos, since they are completely material beings.

Also, even without a true victory against Chaos, killing everybody who worships it and banishing any warp predators that come through the gate is functionally identical and would slowly draw down even the Chaos Gods.

Which is why sentient AIs were banned by the Imperium. JUST AS PLANNED.

Weren't there Men of Iron that got corrupted by Chaos?

[Silverthrone]

Wait, AoS for 40k? Who would even theoretically want such a hideous, hideous thing?

-"So here are the races, cultures and world you've grown engaged in. It's been around about two decades and counting. Neat, innit?"
-"Really neat, Mr. Workshop of the Games!"
-"See this hammer?"
-"Uhh..."
-"This is what we think of it all."
*Smash! Crash! Focus group marketing and hastily written spackle-fluff noises! Łod$amony!!*

If they were to take the iconoclasm further, they wouldn't base the surviving factions and stuff on the lore. They would go through sales figures and marketing reports. Spess mehreens and chaos are likely safe, I'd bet.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Weren't there Men of Iron that got corrupted by Chaos?

The reason the Men of Iron turned on humanity has never been stated. Chaos is a popular theory since it coincided with the Fall of the Eldar. The question of whether sentient machines are subject to chaos corruption isn't fully clear either.

For example, the Castigator Titan claimed it was going to serve Chaos, but it also stated its reasons for doing so as a matter of practicality rather than the typical villainous monologuing you get from the corrupted. There's scrapcode, but that doesn't necessarily make the machines serve chaos, it just ruins them if they aren't being used by Chaotic people.

There's also the issue with the idea that advanced computers in the Imperium all contain whole or partial human brains for their cognitive power. Servitors definitely do this, so it's not impossible. If that's the case, then the chaos corruption is actually turning the fractured screaming minds of the ghost in the machine.

[Kot]

*There are three ways the Imperium can win:
1. Russ finds the Fruit of Life and resurrects the Emperor
2. The Omnicopeia is discovered
3. Humanity evolves into a fully psychic race

There's more though.
Beating Dark Eldar and getting Panacea back.
Installing TTS Device on Golden Throne.
Literally simply out-drowning everyone with Guardsmen.
Some other shit proably I forgot about.

If they were to take the iconoclasm further, they wouldn't base the surviving factions and stuff on the lore. They would go through sales figures and marketing reports. Spess mehreens and chaos are likely safe, I'd bet.

M-muh Sororitas. ;-;

There's also the issue with the idea that advanced computers in the Imperium all contain whole or partial human brains for their cognitive power. Servitors definitely do this, so it's not impossible. If that's the case, then the chaos corruption is actually turning the fractured screaming minds of the ghost in the machine.

You know all those skulls Imperium likes to put on their MAISHINES? Brains in jars.

[pisskop]

I was thinking about it, and a lot of things line up.


Slaneesh coming out later, and then austerity, order, and naive hope coming even later than that.

It would make E weaker than the others though, and in his current state its arguable he is.  Plus his material vessel making him directly influential.

But, no matter what the Emp had decreed, (which is hope anyway), his current imperial represents order pretty well.  all the chaos gods have major character flaws, and his are volumes of blood and soul sacrifice, austeric living conditions with brutal oppression of unordered knowledge, and an intolerance of change that continues to edge into appalling. Just like all the other gods, E's sphere, and those 'corrupted' by it, are so intense they are practically demons of their own.

Or literal demons, if you consider he used order to create titans and primarchs and astartes.


One thing I appreciate about the lore is just how repulsive and consistent it gets.

[Kot]

One thing I appreciate about the lore is just how repulsive and consistent it gets.

A lot of people shit on Wh40k and that it's lore is complete shitshow, but once you get out the tinfoil hat and accept that nothing is true and everything is permitted, it actually gets pretty cool joining the dots.

[Rolepgeek]

Ah, I just thought you were using asshole to refer to the 'chaotic' races and non-asshole to refer to the 'order' ones since people usually try to make arguments based on the idea that the Tau, Eldar and humans aren't really evil and should work together on that basis. 

I kinda just want to link to that one Robot Chicken skit.

But really, only the Tau client/assimilated races aren't assholes, and only specific ones at that. Kroot are cool dudes, Demiurg are cool dudes, the Nicassar probably are too, the Nagi are likely to be assholes, and any race mentioned in 40k that isn't a lesser part of another faction is likely to be mentioned in part for how effective they are at being assholes despite their size. The Jokaero, for instance, fit both of those criteria at once, causing them to fall under the technical term "little shits".

@Teneb: I would disagree on Big E being considered Chaos just because he went full deity. Eldar Gods are not Chaos, and he's more liable to be among those lines than the Chaos God lines, in my estimation.

Also, I'd say odds are Men of Iron was essentially a slave revolt coopted and then completely taken over by GLaDOS MURDERDEATHBOT9000

[Silverthrone]

If they were to take the iconoclasm further, they wouldn't base the surviving factions and stuff on the lore. They would go through sales figures and marketing reports. Spess mehreens and chaos are likely safe, I'd bet.

M-muh Sororitas. ;-;

They... They would be as good as dead already. I... I'm sorry. We can only hope their hypothetical lore-death would be short.

I wouldn't be resting easy, myself. My swarm... My swaaaaarm... My five hundred billion babies... >,: