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Author Topic: WH40K discussion thread: from Tyran's heart I stab at thee.  (Read 1043680 times)

Grim Portent

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5730 on: August 20, 2016, 10:07:35 am »

More like steroids, bone enhancers, flaying knives and lobotomies based on the one instance we know of when the Tau were dumb enough to trust Dark Eldar.
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Rolan7

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5731 on: August 20, 2016, 10:30:15 am »

I wonder if fucking up those Tau even "did it" for those Dark Eldar?  As in gave them soul energy to appease the Prince, however that works.  I assume not nearly as much as humans would.

@Kot
That's more upward mobility than I really thought the Imperium had.  Seems a bit ideal-scenario.  The ruling families of hive worlds are known to hunt fellow humans for sport, and all. 

In real life enlisted soldiers are promoted up an enlisted command chain, not granted officer status- a lieutenant straight from the expensive academy can command a Chief Master Sergeant.  Officers come from the elite, not from heroics, unless they're able to get a university education while serving.  The IG's general strategy seems more like "murder countless soldiers to improve morale" than "invest in their education".  There are plenty of wealthy elite to draw officers from, powerful families who don't take rejection well.

...Though apparently, the Commissariat are recruited specifically from war-orphans O_o  Orphans seem to get all the opportunities :P  Not sure if commissars are often promoted into the normal officer chain.  They have had a proper education, so I'm guessing yes.

Anyway, I'm skeptical about how possible it is to rise in the ranks of the Imperium.  Whereas in the Tau army, it's time and merit based:
Provided the warrior survives four years of active duty, he undergoes the first Trial by Fire, which can be anything from mere gladiatorial affairs to trial by constant combat. If the Shas'la survives his first Trial by Fire, he is promoted to the rank of Shas'ui, or Veteran. For every consecutive four years of service, the Fire Warrior undergoes another Trial. The higher one's rank within the Fire Caste, the more likely one is to become a Battlesuit pilot.[6b] Only those Fire Warriors who prove themselves in battle and pass their first Trial by Fire are eligible to don the Her'ex'evre or Mantle of Heroes and pilot the battlesuit.[8b] Upon attaining the rank of "O", a member of the Fire Caste may be allowed to retire from active duty and become an advisor to the Tau military's command structure, the Shas'ar'tol. Other than death, this is the only way to leave the Tau military.[6b]

I'm not even sure that's *smart*, there's a reason we train officers specially.  I suppose they absorb strategy and command experience from their caste upbringing.  Warrior culture etc.  They probably get equivalent training during downtime (which happens in real life, just not for everyone).

But yeah, the Tau caste system actually encourages upward mobility.  It just broadly determines what line of work the individual will be in...  The one they're genetically adapted for.  A water caste tau won't be farming or doing construction, but any water caste member has the same opportunity to rise from secretary to diplomat with time and merit.  The commies.

It's almost as hard to switch careers in the Imperium.  There are just more difficulties in the way of climbing the role you're assigned, unless you happen to be of a wealthy or "noble" family.
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Tack

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5732 on: August 20, 2016, 10:30:48 am »

Hur hur. Nice wrack.

Edit: Re: commiserat and schola progenum:
1. Commissars are forever outside of the chain of command. Gaunt, Yarrick and Greiss were only given military rank as a "temporary measure", generally following the death of all qualified commanders.
2. Schola Progenum actually only takes the orphans of heroes, nobles and commanders. Hence the tempestus 'scions'.
3. Promotion and meritocracy differs based on planet. Kriegers and Cadians are great at it.
Vostroyans and Valhallans AFAIK are quite shit.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 10:42:05 am by Tack »
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Flying Dice

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5733 on: August 20, 2016, 10:49:17 am »

That's the thing to remember about the Imperium, it's really culturally balkanized, right down to the norms of core institutions. Also, re: "living in the Imperium is shit", remember that what we see are literally the worst parts of it, because those are the fun bits. There are countless thousands of backwater worlds where people can live decent lives without much grimderp or Imperial interference as long as they don't happen to lie in the path of something nasty.
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pisskop

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5734 on: August 20, 2016, 11:18:26 am »

Statistically, I was under the impression that you are far, far more likely to live on a space rock with 20 billion others grimdarking it up there in whats essentially a forced breeding program for labor than living on a medieval world of 100 million.

I don't really hear a lot about virii and etc in the 40k.  Unless its the engineered type.  Or somehow vaguely nurgle.
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Kot

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5735 on: August 20, 2016, 11:27:04 am »

@Kot
That's more upward mobility than I really thought the Imperium had.  Seems a bit ideal-scenario.  The ruling families of hive worlds are known to hunt fellow humans for sport, and all. 

In real life enlisted soldiers are promoted up an enlisted command chain, not granted officer status- a lieutenant straight from the expensive academy can command a Chief Master Sergeant.  Officers come from the elite, not from heroics, unless they're able to get a university education while serving.  The IG's general strategy seems more like "murder countless soldiers to improve morale" than "invest in their education".  There are plenty of wealthy elite to draw officers from, powerful families who don't take rejection well.
That also happens in Wh40k, officers are usually trained but there is nothing stopping you from becoming officer if you live long enough as one of NCO grunts. I suppose there would be a short training too and after that you're on yourself. Explains both Geniuses like Creed and Macharius and madmen geniuses like Chenkov.

...Though apparently, the Commissariat are recruited specifically from war-orphans O_o  Orphans seem to get all the opportunities :P  Not sure if commissars are often promoted into the normal officer chain.  They have had a proper education, so I'm guessing yes.
No. Commissars shouldn't hold officer rank and it's very rare when it happens (aka - when story requires it so actually pretty commonly).

Anyway, I'm skeptical about how possible it is to rise in the ranks of the Imperium.  Whereas in the Tau army, it's time and merit based:
-lexicanum-
I'm not even sure that's *smart*, there's a reason we train officers specially.  I suppose they absorb strategy and command experience from their caste upbringing.  Warrior culture etc.  They probably get equivalent training during downtime (which happens in real life, just not for everyone).
You're human. You will never go past the first Trial (and that's pushing it because Gue'Vesa'Ui are rare as fuck and you won't even get a Battlesuit anyways) because you're worse than even the worst of Tau Fire Warriors.

But yeah, the Tau caste system actually encourages upward mobility.  It just broadly determines what line of work the individual will be in...  The one they're genetically adapted for.  A water caste tau won't be farming or doing construction, but any water caste member has the same opportunity to rise from secretary to diplomat with time and merit.  The commies.
Meanwhile if you're Imperial Guardsman and somehow survive until your Regiment gets dissolved and you are allowed to settle on a new planet (which you proably conquered yourself, there is a reason why Cadian-esque Regiments are so common) or you survive your 20 years conscription, in which case you are allowed to become an Imperial Guardsman again (or be a civilian inside military base which is HERESY which is punished by death). Who knows, maybe you will be a noble on that new planet?
Imperial Navy... why the fuck would you want to retire from Imperial Navy, it's not like anyone on ground has it better if you're an officer or anything.
I am pretty sure that Adepts and the rest of civilian staff can choose to be Guardsmen any day. So that's changing your line of work.

It's almost as hard to switch careers in the Imperium.  There are just more difficulties in the way of climbing the role you're assigned, unless you happen to be of a wealthy or "noble" family.
It's much easier, because while it's ridiculously hard, it's possible... meanwhile if you're Tau you're fucking stuck to one job forever because you're mind-controlled by Ethereals.

Also, if anyone ever brings up that Tau have diplomats while Imperium doesn't...
I'll show you this. They're as hilariously ineffective as you would think.

3. Promotion and meritocracy differs based on planet. Kriegers and Cadians are great at it.
Spoiler: Krieg. (click to show/hide)

Statistically, I was under the impression that you are far, far more likely to live on a space rock with 20 billion others grimdarking it up there in whats essentially a forced breeding program for labor than living on a medieval world of 100 million.
There is only like tens thousands of Hive Worlds. There are billions of other worlds. It balances.
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5736 on: August 20, 2016, 11:53:49 am »

For the record

Everything Kot says about the Tau should, as always, be accompanied by this, for several reasons.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Seriously, you act like you know everything about the Tau. You're not even an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, though, man.

Not like you care about being factually accurate, though.
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Rolan7

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5737 on: August 20, 2016, 11:56:17 am »

Don't be salty, Rolepgeek :P
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5738 on: August 20, 2016, 11:57:23 am »

But I have to have at least this much salt in order to take Kot's comments.

Just a grain won't cut it.
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Kot

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5739 on: August 20, 2016, 12:20:32 pm »

Oh, to walk upon salt-stained ground
To the last man and the last round


Spoiler: Tau salty tears (click to show/hide)
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sprinkled chariot

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5740 on: August 20, 2016, 12:51:20 pm »

But I have to have at least this much salt in order to take Kot's comments.

Just a grain won't cut it.

Kot comments are made from : fanatism undying loyalty to the only true god, unreasonable xenocidal desires righteousness, faith in corpse on the throne, dedication to die in pointless war for the false emperor and his rotting throne and foolish quotes of imperial saints, who could not understand glory of warp honour.
You cant find things like that in tau propaganda.
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Kot

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5741 on: August 20, 2016, 01:18:49 pm »

Because nobody ever gives a shit in Drawbunchofsticks thread and I want fame and recognition.
And it's related.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5742 on: August 20, 2016, 01:19:40 pm »

The problem with the Imperium is everyone thinks that they'll be the alpha, instead of one of the legions of slaves or pathetic guardsmen. But the ratio of citizens who get ground into corpse-starch to people who become all-powerful don't look good.
FIFY~
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Kot

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5743 on: August 20, 2016, 01:21:30 pm »

For a second I wanted to FIFY this quote into Chaos-themed one but then I realized...
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: You are what you eat, so eat your greens.
« Reply #5744 on: August 20, 2016, 03:48:28 pm »

For a second I wanted to FIFY this quote into Chaos-themed one but then I realized...
I actually had to click on the quote to realize what you meant. :P

Also; salt is used as fuel and occasionally ammunition. What do you think the Fish of Fury Campaign was started for?

Also, damn dude. That's pretty good. You have a drawing tablet, I take it? (If not then I really have no excuse)
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