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[Xantalos]

Regarding the Blackstone Fortresses, it's unclear if Vaul crafted them or if they were an Old One weapon or if Vaul was an Old One and the god Vaul is simply a warp entity spawned out of the Eldar worshiping their creators or what.

[Andres]

Huh, the thread title changed.

[Tack]

A while ago, seems.
Cannot remember the old one for the life of me.

[Kot]

Ok, this has gotten out of hand. Kot, your pro-Imperial attitude is both agreeable and objectively correct, but you're dispensing a lot of false information here that I need to address.

(I would want to remind you that Necron weapon against C'Tan was Blackstone Fortresses and those are shooting literal Warp - since C'Tan couldn't exist in Warp they got shrekt)

The Necrons did not create the Blackstone Fortresses. The Blackstone Fortresses were indeed invented as anti-C'tan weapons but it wasn't the Necrons who built them. The Blackstone Fortresses were actually created by Vaul, the Eldar Smith God. Necrons don't do Warptech.

I should also mention that it wouldn't be the first time they did something like that - the human Pariah Gene, the one that is responsible for existence of Blanks, was deliberately engineered into humanity by Necrons back during the War in Heaven.

The Necrons did not give humanity the Pariah Gene. The Necrons went into hibernation at the end of the War in Heaven and hadn't begun awakening until long after humanity had been born. The War in Heaven ended 60 million years before humanity had evolved into existence. Human blanks are still a mystery of 40k.

Big E (remember that he stole some of his plot powers from Chaos Gods)

He did not. He gained his powers by being the culmination of tens of thousands of human psykers who each had more Warp experience than friggin Eldrad due to their power to reincarnate.

which later came to (quite literally) fuck Cegorach in ass

Cegorach came out of the Fall of the Eldar completely unscathed, the only one of the Eldar Gods to do so.

Eh.
First, I never said it was Necrons that made Blackstone Fortresses. I am not completly convinced it was Vaul, either, but the fact is that it was the Blackstone Fortresses that were used by Silent King against C'tan. The weapon was described as basically Warp gun and Blackstones are like that, they're also in right place and have been dormant for ages - if it was Eldar stuff, why didin't they take it and at least hid them from stupid humans and hilariously evil Abbadon?
The Pariah gene being injected into humans was a part of old canon but I am pretty sure this is still a posibility and people think it was like that even in universe (fucking Mechanicus Necrodermis fetishists). They also obviously didin't inject it in humans themselves but rather our monkey ancestors - which is exactly why Old Ones wanted us (this happened) removed but thankfully Eldar didin't enjoy the prospect of genociding Monkey Mon'keigh.
As a side note - it's widely considered that the similarities between Humans and shitton other humanoid races comes from Old Ones, but incidentally Necrontyr were pretty humanoid themselves.
God Emperor either stole or fought for (or made a deal) parts of Chaos Gods powers on planet Molech, which is why they always considered Primarches and Marines as something belonging to them and why they scattered Mini-Emperors across the Galaxy in first place.
As for the Cegorach, I know, sadly, though he proably wasn't in mood to laugh.

[Dorsidwarf]

I'm pretty damn sure the Moloch incident with big E was told by a heretic rather than being explicitly written.

Also that would be pretty fucken impressive foresight of the Necrons, since 60mya even the earliest known ancestor of primates wouldn't exist for 5 million years.
Over the 38,000 years between now and 40k, humanity has evolved from "basically non-psychic" to "basically low-level psychic". The supposed insertion of the Pariah gene into random early mammals would have been pretty much random, seeing as that was a period fifteen hundred times further removed from modern day "basically non-psychic" than "basically non-psychic" is from "basically low-level psychic".

Sometimes fluff is retconned not because of the power lance up GW's ass, but because it's fucking moronic.


Edit: Let's suppose that Modern Humanity's ambient level is 100,000 Arbitary Units of psychic, and that the Imperial Humanity's is 10,000,000. If you assume a linear progression (because what the fuck is there to compare against here?), then the level of psychic activity in the pseudomammals that the Necrons gene-edited would be 1.0x10^-1496 Arbitary Units.
Obviously this calculation doesn't mean much because it's based entirely off of Fermi estimation ("This seems about right") and the Emps had a big influence on how psychic humanity was, but the sheer orders of magnitude involved here show just how fucking stupid an idea it was. In fact, the Imperium being only about 100 times more psychically active than modern humanity is probbably a huge under-estimation.

[Teneb]

Necrons did in fact insert pariah genes into the ancestors of humanity, as far as I remember, Andres.

You either remember wrongly or the person you remember getting the information from was incorrect.

It was the Nightbringer, IIRC. So not exactly Necrons. Well, old fluff at least. I liked the Necron Pariahs, though.

-snip-

Humanity was probably somewhat more psychic than they are in 40k when all the shamans killed themselves to create Emps.

[90908]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzsDLpNMZq0

Yes please.

[Kot]

I'm pretty damn sure the Moloch incident with big E was told by a heretic rather than being explicitly written.

No. It was Alivia Sureka, a perpetual and one of most trusted people to Emperor. While she didin't went into the gate with Big E (which is why we don't know how exactly did the Emperor achieve it), she was later left behind to guard it. It also checks out with heretical sources because hell, if the Emperor didin't actually dicked Chaos Gods over they surely wouldn't claim he did. They're mad.

Also that would be pretty fucken impressive foresight of the Necrons, since 60mya even the earliest known ancestor of primates wouldn't exist for 5 million years.

First line. Also, yes, I agree it's retarded (and would imply that ALL the primates have it, GORILLA CULEXUS WHEN) but it doesn't really had to be Necrons themselves, just the C'Tan. And yes, it's questionably canon but as long as it existed and was never explictly proven otherwise, it's canon.

Over the 38,000 years between now and 40k, humanity has evolved from "basically non-psychic" to "basically low-level psychic". The supposed insertion of the Pariah gene into random early mammals would have been pretty much random, seeing as that was a period fifteen hundred times further removed from modern day "basically non-psychic" than "basically non-psychic" is from "basically low-level psychic".

It wasn't evolution. Humanity was non-psychic because the sacrifice of Shamans and creation of Emperor effectively removed psychic abilities from humanity for long, long time (either because >Warp shit (more proable) or because he basically used up all the people with psyker genes (more scientific but doesn't exactly make perfect sense because psykers don't work this way)).

Sometimes fluff is retconned not because of the power lance up GW's ass, but because it's fucking moronic.

SQUATS.

Edit: Let's suppose that Modern Humanity's ambient level is 100,000 Arbitary Units of psychic, and that the Imperial Humanity's is 10,000,000. If you assume a linear progression (because what the fuck is there to compare against here?), then the level of psychic activity in the pseudomammals that the Necrons gene-edited would be 1.0x10^-1496 Arbitary Units.
Obviously this calculation doesn't mean much because it's based entirely off of Fermi estimation ("This seems about right") and the Emps had a big influence on how psychic humanity was, but the sheer orders of magnitude involved here show just how fucking stupid an idea it was. In fact, the Imperium being only about 100 times more psychically active than modern humanity is probbably a huge under-estimation.

Modern Humanity's ambient level is proably usually between Pi and Psi which is... between 10 and 0 Arbitary Units of Psychic. Imperial Humanity is...  between Pi and Psi usually, which is between 10 and 0 Arbitrary Units of Psychic with rare exception of Psykers which are between Omicron and Gamma which are about 1000 Arbitrary Units of Psychic and 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (made up but you get the idea) Arbitrary Units of Psychic. You're taking Humanity as a whole while it simply doesn't work that way - there is more (and more powerful) Psykers but the general population doesn't get more psychic.
As for the actual Omega level Blanks, they have... -1 Arbitrary Units of Psychic because it works like this - either you're a Psyker who has some weird connection to Warp with their soul which makes it bloat, or you're normal and have bigger or lesser "soul" (and the lesser it is, the more resistant you are to Warp) or... or you're a Blank and simply don't have one. There are no levels of Blank, because there is simply nothing to measure. Of course there is still Omega-minus level, but that's quite different from regular Blanks because they're literally antisoulmatter (as opposed to Blank lack of soulmatter) which makes them ridiculously deadly to even regular humans.
Also, as far as I'm concerned an awful lot of people carry Pariah gene but not everyone has the dominant version and is a blank. Hell, it might be actually the sole reason why humanity is not yet all Psykers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzsDLpNMZq0

Yes please.

After watching this I literally cannot contain my LOYALTY.
At least they don't wear somberos like the last time.

[90908]

holyshitholyshitnomercynosurrenderplraisebetothemeperorholiestofman.

[Tack]

"It's like space hulk but dark angles are better than blood angels."

[Teneb]

"It's like space hulk but dark angles are better than blood angels."

Dark angles are the best angles. Much better than blood angles.

[Kot]

Heralds of the coming doom
By cry of raven we are drawn
This oath of war and venegance
On blade of exalted iron sworn
With blood-anointed swords aloft
Advance we into the dread's dark shade
Punishment divine unleashed with hate
A wrathful storm of bolt and blade
Purge with plasma, fist and shell
Bring cleansing fire's righteous breath
For the Emperor, Knights of Caliban
The Lion's anointed Angels of Death
No forgiveness, no retreat.

By the Emperor, all this Ham. Toby Longworth needs to do the usual Wh40k "Only War" intro speech.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

GW didn't retcon the Pariahs, they just stopped talking about them when they made Newcrons.

Which is dumb, because the Pariahs are even better for the Newcrons plots than the Oldcrons, what with some of them wanting to bodysnatch a mortal species.

Humanity is way more psychic in M.42 than M.2. About one in a million humans are above Kappa and have conscious psychic powers, which clearly is way too low of a number to go unnoticed on ancient Earth. Not only that, but humanity's psychic average is exponentially increasing, which is one of the many End Times scenarios out there. Soon humans will become like eldar, but lacking in experience to resist daemons.

[90908]

I no longer care for Necrons.

I now need Genestealers everywhere. The Imperial Guard now only fights Genestealers, is made of Genestealers and fires Genestealers out of there tanks.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Jeanstealer please go