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[MetalSlimeHunt]

"Freedom is the right of all sapient beings! Freedom and tentacles."

[Loud Whispers]

Also legally they have to give over all slain tanks and harvested souls to the soul forge. So one wonders how they are supposed to pay off the debt. Is that the point?

[Teneb]

Also legally they have to give over all slain tanks and harvested souls to the soul forge. So one wonders how they are supposed to pay off the debt. Is that the point?

I guess the stuff they hand over is what goes to cover their debt.

[Grim Portent]

The debt is primarily paid in souls, everyone slain by a Soul Grinder goes to the forgemasters. Initially the debt seems doable, probably just a few hundred or thousand souls, but each time the Soul Grinder is wrecked or blown up and needs repaired their debt grows until it becomes impossible to ever repay, trapping the Grinder in a perpetual hell of death and reincarnation as a piston driven warmachine spurned by it's former comrades.

[Tack]

I thought it was less of a debt and more of a cut.

[Loud Whispers]

I thought it was less of a debt and more of a cut.

Even if it is, I think we can all agree that it's appropriate for Soul Grinders to be caught in an eternal cycle of work and debt slavery

[Rolepgeek]

The debt is primarily paid in souls, everyone slain by a Soul Grinder goes to the forgemasters. Initially the debt seems doable, probably just a few hundred or thousand souls, but each time the Soul Grinder is wrecked or blown up and needs repaired their debt grows until it becomes impossible to ever repay, trapping the Grinder in a perpetual hell of death and reincarnation as a piston driven warmachine spurned by it's former comrades.

Didn't seem to be unpleasant for the Daemon. They still get to hang around in the mortal world and kill shit a lot more often.

Plus, given the typical fluff accompanying Chaos, it seems like a few hundred or thousand souls could be done with a single good raid. From what I know, they don't ever pay off the debt. The deal is that you give us the souls and scrap metal and protect the Forge, and we give you repairs and presence in the Materium.

[KingofstarrySkies]

...I've never really thought about how great a 40k mmo could be until like right now. Holy shit.

[Grim Portent]

The debt is primarily paid in souls, everyone slain by a Soul Grinder goes to the forgemasters. Initially the debt seems doable, probably just a few hundred or thousand souls, but each time the Soul Grinder is wrecked or blown up and needs repaired their debt grows until it becomes impossible to ever repay, trapping the Grinder in a perpetual hell of death and reincarnation as a piston driven warmachine spurned by it's former comrades.

Didn't seem to be unpleasant for the Daemon. They still get to hang around in the mortal world and kill shit a lot more often.

Plus, given the typical fluff accompanying Chaos, it seems like a few hundred or thousand souls could be done with a single good raid. From what I know, they don't ever pay off the debt. The deal is that you give us the souls and scrap metal and protect the Forge, and we give you repairs and presence in the Materium.

Daemons do not like to be beholden to anyone save their deity. Swearing the oath to the Forgemasters is a betrayal of the very essence of what they are, requires they surrender their true name, give up their true form and forgo serving their god. They are slaves who sold their liberty in order to avoid being trapped in the Warp while their body regenerated normally, a rash decision that earns the contempt of the warhosts they once fought alongside and which gnaws at them for their entire existence.

The idea that a Soul Grinder can free itself is also only a rumour even to daemons, as the soul debt incurred by the mechanical reincarnation rises randomly and arbitrarily according to the inscrutable whims of the Forgemasters. To my knowledge there is no referenced instance of a Grinder successfully paying off it's debt.

The fluff for Soul Grinders in the codex refers to the body as a 'mechanical prison' for a reason.

[Rolepgeek]

They still serve their god most of the time. It's just that if any of the Gods tried to attack it or the like.

And they probably aren't pleased about their oath, but they know exactly what they're getting into, by this point. Some might consider it rash. Meanwhile, they get to kill more things than those other Daemons. Don't get the souls, sure, but Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, only that it flows.

[Grim Portent]

Actually according to the KDK codex Khorne is the only god who absolutely despises Soul Grinders.

Among the daemonic cohorts of Khorne, Soul Grinders are universally scorned. Though mighty warriors, they have damned themselves doubly in the eyes of their comrades. Not only have these Daemons suffered the ignominy of defeat in battle - sin enough in the Blood God's eyes - they have then compounded their failures by bending the knee to one other than the Blood God.

According to the rest of that particular entry the other gods find them amusing for differing reasons, largely because they enjoy the conflict between what the daemon was and should be and what it is and will be forever. The submission to pride, foolishness and twisted loyalties amuse Slaanesh, Nurgle and Tzeentch respectively.

Khorne may not care where the blood flows from, but how it is spilled and in whose name it is shed matter to him a very great deal.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I feel the need to point out that, in Shape of the Nightmare to Come, the whole Forgemaster system ends up birthing the second of the New Chaos Gods. Khorne's concerns are warranted.

[LordBaal]

It might not be that rash of a decision. Sure it's pretty stupid but as far as I know to take a hold on the real world the demons need to be summoned, I bet the waiting line is long and not everyone is that popular so when confronted to fading back among a sea of chaos energy or returning even as a slave the choice could be clear (as clear something so convoluted could be).

[Grim Portent]

Daemons can also enter realspace during Warpstorms and when the gods or other daemons force open a portal. Generally speaking most large incursions occur when a Greater Daemon or Prince enters realspace under their own power and tears open a rift to let their army through.

Soul Grinders also don't really get to spend more time in realspace than other daemons, that's more the purview of the true daemon engines, they just don't have to wait out the normal time period it takes a daemon to regenerate their own body after being banished or killed. If they were willing to wait a few centuries they would have been back in their true form and ready to kill again, instead they choose to give up their form and name in the hopes of getting revenge on mortalkind.

[Rolepgeek]

I thought it was millennia spent waiting and reforming?