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[Rolepgeek]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Didn't know that bit about Culexii. EMP aura+phase blink will certainly do it, though. If only we could have killed one and stolen the tech...

I like how you refeer to Tau as "we", heretic.

I like how you thought I was anything else, gue'la.

[Grim Portent]

On the second bit,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 I...wait, what? So does this confirm that Ethereals are psykers? Like, Tau have shit for warp presence, why the fuck would they send a Culexus? What the fuck is up with Tau technology that it can't do shit to something who's biggest thing is being like the Tau(in terms of Warpiness), except more?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Blanks affect all souled beings, even the Tau. Being near the strong ones, like Culexii, causes your soul to be temporarily ripped out, which causes aneuryisms in the weak willed. Normal Tau just died when near it from heart attacks, blood clots and the like. Aun'Va was pretty impressive in that he had to be killed manually by it.

It also had either a warp based EMP aura or was carrying something that projected one. Combined with it's Etherium, which let it phase in and out of reality, drones and other security mechanisms couldn't detect or stop it. It just walked into a bunker, killed anything that came near it and then killed it's target.

In the same battle a Vindicare and an Eversor failed to kill Farsight, though the Eversor came really close, and a Callidus failed to kill Shadowsun while disguised as an Ethereal. Shadowsun could apparently smell the difference between the disguised assassin and a real ethereal.

The Tau supreme council has decided not to let the rest of the Empire know Aun'Va is dead yet, so they've replaced him with holograms, decoys and so forth. Basically so 40k player can still field him.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Didn't know that bit about Culexii. EMP aura+phase blink will certainly do it, though. If only we could have killed one and stolen the tech...

In the fluff Culexii are more or less the single most powerful soldiers in the Imperium, even including things like Dreadnoughts and Knight Demi-Titans. They are of course possibly rarer than Emperor Titans, since only the strongest blanks become Culexii, and struggle against true hordes of enemies, even with their speculum turned off (which unleashes the full force of their anti-soul aura) but for killing single targets/small groups there's few better warriors in the galaxy.

Erebus planned to use the most powerfull Culexii ever to kill the Emperor during the Horus Heresy, but it got killed by a team of the four greatest Imperial Assassins of the day before it could be deployed. Somehow Erebus managed to bind a daemon into the thing without killing either of them in the process, which drove them both mad (even the daemon) and magnified and twisted it's anti-psyker powers into a mirror. The idea was that when it fought the Emperor it would turn his own psychic might against him as a soul shredding maelstrom.

[Egan_BW]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Didn't know that bit about Culexii. EMP aura+phase blink will certainly do it, though. If only we could have killed one and stolen the tech...

I like how you refeer to Tau as "we", heretic.

I like how you thought I was anything else, gue'la.

Delicious biomass differentiates itself from similar delicious biomass, how amusing and nutritious.

[Grim Portent]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Didn't know that bit about Culexii. EMP aura+phase blink will certainly do it, though. If only we could have killed one and stolen the tech...

I like how you refeer to Tau as "we", heretic.

I like how you thought I was anything else, gue'la.

Delicious biomass differentiates itself from similar delicious biomass, how amusing and nutritious.

You are all but pawns to the plans of the true powers in the universe. All shall kneel before Chaos!

[Kot]

Erebus planned to use the most powerfull Culexii ever to kill the Emperor during the Horus Heresy, but it got killed by a team of the four greatest Imperial Assassins of the day before it could be deployed. Somehow Erebus managed to bind a daemon into the thing without killing either of them in the process, which drove them both mad (even the daemon) and magnified and twisted it's anti-psyker powers into a mirror. The idea was that when it fought the Emperor it would turn his own psychic might against him as a soul shredding maelstrom.

Funilly enough, said four greatest Imperial Assasins weren't even after the blank, they were after Horus. Horus didin't know about the Erebus plan and in the end they had a very serious talk about use of assasins, since Horus wanted to kill Emperor personally.

I like how you refeer to Tau as "we", heretic.

I like how you thought I was anything else, gue'la.

Delicious biomass differentiates itself from similar delicious biomass, how amusing and nutritious.

You are all but pawns to the plans of the true powers in the universe. All shall kneel before Chaos!

At the end of the day both heretics and xeno scum burn in the same beautiful shade of Holy Promethium Orange.

[Rolepgeek]

I like how you refeer to Tau as "we", heretic.

I like how you thought I was anything else, gue'la.

Delicious biomass differentiates itself from similar delicious biomass, how amusing and nutritious.

You are all but pawns to the plans of the true powers in the universe. All shall kneel before Chaos!

At the end of the day both heretics and xeno scum burn in the same beautiful shade of Holy Promethium Orange.

You know, you're right.

Though the technical name is Xan'yl Sha'sir. Or Novafire, if you prefer. The Fire Caste has no issue with it's namesake, I assure you.

[Toady One]

I don't understand much of what's going on in here, but there were some reports, so hopefully people will continue to be less-fighty.

[Tack]

Seriously?
How the balls did this get far enough to be reportable?
C'mon guys. Amplify your relaxed states.

...you two have similar-looking avatars in my muddled memory

That's ok. One day I'll put an awesome conversion project up.

Also I feel it's gotta be said that no matter how silly the lore is, the balance of the actual game is sillier.

[nenjin]

Question for the class:

What motivates a 100,000 year-old sentient AI/Human hybrid with the past memories of their predecessors, whose entire culture was destroyed in an apocalyptic war of mutual annihilation millennia ago and who has steadily been losing both the ability to control what remains of its city, and its sanity, and who is destined to be destroyed by its own planet in the near future?

My default assumption has just been that it wants to be left alone to die. It hates all the Rogue Traders and such pillaging its superior technology, "devolved" humans and others looting the corpse of its once mighty culture. It resents intrusion, especially by those in considers inferior, and it basically has no plan for the future because it doesn't have one.

My biggest consideration is that something like this Archeotech AI/Human hybrid can't really survive for long in the 40k universe. It'd be too disruptive, spawns too many plot threads of import for this small side-venture I'd arranged.

So I've constructed things such that it can go away very quickly if need be (basically it collapses into the molten core of its geologically unstable planet, which is being burnt to a cinder by the solar system's overactive sun.) Likewise, I don't have many compunctions about it initiating its own destruction just to thwart the PCs. I have all that arranged and I'm satisfied more or less with it. (In truth I think I overreached when I set up the entire adventure. The scope is too broad and too game changing tbh.)

Anyways, my problem is this: what kind of motivation do you give to such a being in such a circumstance? I've given the being a way to communicate different thoughts and opinions (consider it like a mild form of schizophrenia combined with something like this) but when it comes down to it I find it doesn't have much to say other than "You're not welcome here" and "If you don't go away I'll destroy you." (Almost forced two PCs to burn fate points tonight hehe.)

Again, while part of it might want to be saved or to pass on its knowledge to someone, anyone, and that's totally believable....it would cause a lot of turbulence in the game I think were it to happen. An entire Archeotech culture's complete history in the hands of PCs? Half or even a third of a city worth of preserved artifacts? Yeah, it could spawn some cute "Mechanicus/Inqusition/Aliens/Everyone is up your butt now" adventures but that'd completely derail what the campaign had been about so far. And it's just too much power and profit factor to lay on the party right now.

So in lieu of "help me/take my knowledge", what's a reasonable motivation for this being to have that's more than just a bog standard "fuck you die" with a dash of "you're so inferior." It's the perfect rationale for it wanting to protect its culture's technology (which essentially lead its own people to wage a war of extinction), but it doesn't add much character to it. I'll roll ahead with what I have if no better ideas turn up (the PCs will meet this thing next week) but I'm hoping to come up with a belief or motivation that isn't simply just waiting to die (which describes at least one NPC already in the game.)

Cause if they end up rescuing this thing or at least preserving the vast majority of what still remains....I may have to pull some shenanigans to keep things balanced.

[Rolepgeek]

Well, I dunno, if I was it, I'd get bored.

Fresh meat can be entertaining. See what new stuff they might do. Maybe they're as boring as everyone who come before, but...sometimes, all that's left is trying to keep from going mad from the boredom.

Or there could be some connection to Chaos, either hatred or corruption. *shrug*

[MetalSlimeHunt]

100,000 years old?

Anyway, such an entity could have a number of purposes. The PCs represent an excellent opportunity to try and change form. Perhaps to an immaculate cybernetic hybrid...or perhaps to their ship.

Something so old could indeed have deep connections to Chaos, the old Imperium, the Emperor, the DAoT Federation, or even something related to the Old Ones, and thus a derivative motive.

Going by Pattern Consciousness Theory, because the entity retains the memory of its predecessors, it is them in all ways that matter. In that sense, it may not even consider its culture destroyed, just...consolidated.

You could also fairly assume that a being of such intelligence and longevity will have inevitably gone through cycles effectively identical to ending up understanding the truth of nihilism. And so it would be sort of an anti-killer AI. Still doing all the murder and whatnot, but much more upbeat mood-wise.

On the other hand, since it has some humanity to it, you could potentially go the route of it attempting to persuade the PCs that humanity is doomed to die in the near future (which being 40k is probably true), and so they really aren't in a better boat and should just get it over with right now. Less of a death trap, more of a death option!

A lot of concerns about the magnitude of this thing can be handwaved by them being on the frontier. The Imperium barely knows what goes on this far into the Black, and so it is not unreasonable that this abomination never gets back to anyone of note if the PCs get it/are enslaved by it.

[Xantalos]

Perhaps it has core programming that prevents it from self-terminating save for if humanity is fully extinct/lost but really wants to die in spite of that. So it could subject the party to a twisted and insane set of morality tests and such to qualify the minimum standards for non-human so it can kill itself.

Basically it tries to turn the PCs evil or whatever arbitrary criteria you want so it can use them as a theoretical sample and die, and if the PCs manage to kill it without sacrificing their morality/genetics/whatever, it acknowledges that 'hey maybe there is hope for humanity if I can help you-' and then it dies and self-destructs.

I'd be a dick GM, don't take my ideas with too much merit.

[nenjin]

Going by Pattern Consciousness Theory, because the entity retains the memory of its predecessors, it is them in all ways that matter. In that sense, it may not even consider its culture destroyed, just...consolidated.

I see your meaning and that does make some sense. But I imparted human emotions to it so it'd be relatable to its host culture, so it'd shared their experiences. It also carries their prejudices. It served in an advisory, command and control, oracular and historical function for its now-dead culture. While I like the smug superiority of a machine because it's so much fun to deflate, I sort of want a few feels here and the loss of its culture to sting it in some way. It's not that its lonely per se, it has generations of minds fused into it and so it's more of a collective. But it definitely feels the loss of both its culture and ultimately its control over its own destiny. Human frustrations, if you will.

You could also fairly assume that a being of such intelligence and longevity will have inevitably gone through cycles effectively identical to ending up understanding the truth of nihilism. And so it would be sort of an anti-killer AI. Still doing all the murder and whatnot, but much more upbeat mood-wise.

The thought had occurred to me as well. But I was kind of saving a maniacal, kill happy AI for a different setting than this one. I think the theme I ultimately tuned into was "enlightened culture brought to the edge of destruction" and the PCs happen to be intruding on the last moments of this culture's existence.

On the other hand, since it has some humanity to it, you could potentially go the route of it attempting to persuade the PCs that humanity is doomed to die in the near future (which being 40k is probably true), and so they really aren't in a better boat and should just get it over with right now. Less of a death trap, more of a death option!

This however works on a lot of levels! Like the PCs don't really have the time or the choice, the AI is going one way or another. They can either be present for it or fuck off in good order. I hadn't really decided the AI's method too closely yet. I was imagining the command and control core suspended over a giant lava fissure underneath the spire, and it'd just, I dunno, overload its plasma reactors or some shit, destroy its remaining structural supports, go tumbling into the abyss and take half the rest of the city at least with it in a cataclysm of fire and collapsing earth. I suppose the only thing the PCs could do at that point is try and disable the AI's command and control functions but...that's pretty much beyond anyone they have, including their NPC tech priest. I've been handwaving most technological challenges just to keep things moving, but screwing with the root of an Archeotech system like that isn't something you can do in a short period of time. Or unopposed.

A lot of concerns about the magnitude of this thing can be handwaved by them being on the frontier. The Imperium barely knows what goes on this far into the Black, and so it is not unreasonable that this abomination never gets back to anyone of note if the PCs get it/are enslaved by it.

Mmm, while I can hand wave the I guess we'll call them political consequences easily enough, it's the potential profit factor in what they find that has me a little nervous. If I'm staying true to the scales I laid out in the book I handed to players, a fraction of this city is still an incredible haul for where they're at. (We're talking ~10 to 15 profit factor which is relative to the entire wealth of a minor noble house.) The PCs are already scooping up every fallen bit and scrap of the robots they've been killing so they can sell them by whatever means necessary. If I literally let them have the whole city and everything that's left in it intact.....we're talking like 40 or 50 profit factor maybe. And that's like the power level of a major noble house close to Terra. (The scale caps at 125 or so at the power level of "an entire wing of the Adeptus". The party currently sits at about 45ish.) So I've set this huge stage for them that is close to the holy grail of exploration (a fully intact Archeotech world or city being the true holy grail) but suddenly feeling like I'm going to need to take a lot of it away, quickly, to keep things in scale and scope.

Or maybe I do let them get stupidly rich off this so they can use it as a springboard to their larger goals. (Which may or may not be raising a fleet to go chase down that Ork Freebooter Kaptin.)

Perhaps it has core programming that prevents it from self-terminating save for if humanity is fully extinct/lost but really wants to die in spite of that. So it could subject the party to a twisted and insane set of morality tests and such to qualify the minimum standards for non-human so it can kill itself.

It's not a bad idea. Unfortunately I have a party that is half cerebrally minded as PCs (they like to think through problems and logic and dealing with NPCs) and the other half is way more action oriented (they prefer to drop a sick line or movie-reference then shoot a guy in the face and get the loot.) So I kinda need the AI to be approachable but not drag itself out either, because some of my players run with it while others will just groan and say "shoot it." Basically I always have to be careful not to invest too much in an idea for an NPC, because it is entirely likely the party will just punch straight through it (literally.) Which, as a GM, tends to make you feel like shit. So while that might be fun for a bit, it may also fail to really move anyone and they'll just do an end run around it.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Personally, I think a lot of DMs get too afraid of their games changing in scope and so end up using fiat to ensure the PCs never effectively grow in power, no matter what happens.

It's up to what you're willing to shoulder, but I say? Let them have it if they deserve it. Just so long as that, afterwards, they understand that they are officially In Play. Some fuckoff nearly dead rogue trader dynasty means nothing to the people with real power. Such a dynasty after claiming an archeotech world is another matter entirely, and when you play that game, you either win and TPK later, or TPK now. Most probably can't handle that challenge, and it'd be hard on you too, but it is an option.

[nenjin]

That's essentially my position too. 40k isn't a universe where you can win a non-phyrric victory against the combined might of [insert your organization of doom here.] And I can't deny I've been fantasizing about ways I could unleash an Eversor Assassin on the party. (There's a scene in...one of the last 40k novels I read, can't remember which atm, that had a really bad-ass build up and reveal of an Eversor Assassin and it's been in been in my mind ever since.)

But yeah, I've often been guilty of cockblocking my own party out of fear and it's something I'm trying not to do here. It's really a question of scale and unfortunately i've played up the question of scale to them as the game has wound on. So they're aware of the money to be made in all this, and I think essentially threatening them in their success will kind of be resented. "So we get to choose between a sub-optimal reward or eventual annihilation at the hands of [insert your organization of doom here]" is how I believe the response to that will go.

While a lot of my players understand the 40k universe and like parts of it, the most knowledgable of them really doesn't like several parts of how it ticks. Not ever truly being Top Shit of Poop Mountain is one of them.