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Author Topic: WH40K discussion thread: [loading grimdark, please wait]  (Read 1047506 times)

Grim Portent

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In a few of the novels it's established that Chaos is a lot more liberal with their recruitment efforts than the Imperium. Practices with a high failure rate like cloning are used by chaos but not loyalists. Gene seed that's mutated by Chaos is hit or miss, so they prefer to use stolen loyalist geneseed or the geneseed of purer chaos marines, but they make up for that by cloning gene seed, cloning viable hosts and just dealing with the fallout of clones being unstable and degenerative. Geneseed can also be cultivated in normal humans, it was the original way marines made more way back when, I think the Imperium doesn't do that in current lore and Chaos does.

Adopting renegade marines or forcibly recruiting captured marines (World Eaters, Black Legion and Red Corsairs especially do this). Lord Zhufor was originally an Imperial Fist that was captured and forcibly given the Butcher's Nails, which resulted in him joining and eventually becoming leader of the World Eaters warband that did it to him.

As LW mentioned, temporal paradoxes are fairly common. A person can't usually exist twice in the same time, but there are examples of it happening, and chaos is known to use self contained time loops to recruit more forces. The traitors go back in time and cause the events that turned them traitor in the first place.

Chaos marines can come back from the dead under the right circumstances. Big two examples are Kharn and Lucius, but it is established that sufficiently powerful sorcery or divine intervention can resurrect the dead.

Some chaos marines are actually cyborg humans shaped like marines. Many hereteks still see the marines as the pinnacle of human life, and so craft their cybernetic bodies to emulate them and wield marine weaponry and armour. The most extreme ones are literally a human brain and spine in a robotic marine suit.

A bit of outright magic, sorcery and alchemy can be used to create marines more efficiently, like Honsu's Daemonculaba. Cursed and surgially altered human women implanted with geneseed who could turn a child inserted into their wombs into a chaos marine, and then just be used again and again with no need for new geneseed. Usually the marines would born without skin mind you, and mutations or deformities were frequent. The basic principle can be applied elsewhere, with some chaos marines being humans enhanced by warp magic or demonic gifts rather than being real marines.

Chaos also makes use of a technology called embryo farms, which I infer to be fertilised zygotes stored in life support systems and then grown into humans to use as slaves when necessary. Mechanised breeding basically. The Imperium might use them too though. If you find humans with high genetic compatibility with geneseed you can harvest their eggs and sperm, freeze the zygotes and grow more whenever you need hosts for geneseed or to turn into marines. The book that features them has the Iron Warriors just use them as a way for a small warband to compensate for their high attrition rate among factory slaves, but logically there are broader applications.
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There once was a dwarf in a cave,
who many would consider brave.
With a head like a block
he went out for a sock,
his ass I won't bother to save.

nenjin

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Geneseed theft seems to be one of the most common methods. You can recruit wherever but if you can't replenish your stock of geneseed, no CSM.

That was the entire thrust of the book Storm of Iron, is the Iron Warriors sieging a super fortress that has a massive stock of Imperial Fists geneseed. It's such a win that the Warsmith gets to ascend to daemonhood for succeeding.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
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Always spaghetti, never forghetti

LordBaal

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Is disappointing no one mentioned the daemonculaba yet. Sure that particular one was destroyed but something like that on a lesser scale or different configuration could probably be happening all around.
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

Grim Portent

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That was the entire thrust of the book Storm of Iron, is the Iron Warriors sieging a super fortress that has a massive stock of Imperial Fists geneseed. It's such a win that the Warsmith gets to ascend to daemonhood for succeeding.

He was already on the cusp of ascension, it's pointed out a few times that he's on the brink of becoming a spawn or a prince depending on how quickly they capture the fortress, plus he kills an Imperial Fist leader in a duel at the end of storming the place. That and eating some of the geneseed things* as a sacrament to his corruption. The geneseed was implied to be the main thing that earned him daemonhood, but in Black Crusade terms he was sitting at 99 Corruption and 90 Infamy, almost any deed would be enough to tip him over the edge for good or ill.



*IIRC the geneseed is stored in some sort of boneless, stunted humanoids stored in life support tubes. Living incubators to preserve the rather delicate geneseed. It's a wonderfully grotesque concept. Storm of Iron had a few bits of body horror that fit the setting really well.
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There once was a dwarf in a cave,
who many would consider brave.
With a head like a block
he went out for a sock,
his ass I won't bother to save.

nenjin

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And then the body horror goes into overdrive in Black Sky, Dead Sun.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Loud Whispers

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I had to look it up as it seems like fairly recent lore expansion but World Eaters do have an apothecary equivalent who steals gene seed from other spess mahrins/inducts mareens from outside the warband. It still surprises me that they are able to survive their atrociously high attrition rate though. If any CSM legion was to go extinct it would be these guys

Grim Portent

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I had to look it up as it seems like fairly recent lore expansion but World Eaters do have an apothecary equivalent who steals gene seed from other spess mahrins/inducts mareens from outside the warband. It still surprises me that they are able to survive their atrociously high attrition rate though. If any CSM legion was to go extinct it would be these guys

Berzerker-Surgeons/Berzerker-Chirurgeons* have been around for at least two decades, they just never got much lore beyond 'these guys install Butcher's Nails in people and used to be the World Eater's apothecaries.' Think they might be from as far back as 3rd edition, but they definitely date back to 4th at least since that was my first Chaos marine codex and I'm certain they're mentioned in it.

Gahlan Surlak, a named WE from the HH, did manage to create marines at a faster than normal pace. Legion Inductees, basically scouts developed rapidly, given the Nails and full kit and used as the marine equivalent of cannon fodder. IIRC they got a WS/BS penalty and cost less points than normal WEs in the old HH ruleset.

It is possible to make marines really fast, it's just not easy and the Imperium is doctrinally opposed to it because of the Codex Astartes, the post HH reforms that divided up the Imperial armed forces and limited the size of space marine chapters put a lot of artificial barriers in place that Chaos isn't restricted by. During the Heresy both loyalists and traitors attempted mass inuduction and rapid development, as well as experiments on geneseed hybridisation, but they often resulted in inferior or unstable marines, so only the traitors kept doing it after the war.


*Defunct old word for surgeons. Gets intermittently applied to various doctors in 40k.
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There once was a dwarf in a cave,
who many would consider brave.
With a head like a block
he went out for a sock,
his ass I won't bother to save.

Loud Whispers

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Berzerker-Surgeons/Berzerker-Chirurgeons* have been around for at least two decades, they just never got much lore beyond 'these guys install Butcher's Nails in people and used to be the World Eater's apothecaries.' Think they might be from as far back as 3rd edition, but they definitely date back to 4th at least since that was my first Chaos marine codex and I'm certain they're mentioned in it.
My bad

Gahlan Surlak, a named WE from the HH, did manage to create marines at a faster than normal pace. Legion Inductees, basically scouts developed rapidly, given the Nails and full kit and used as the marine equivalent of cannon fodder. IIRC they got a WS/BS penalty and cost less points than normal WEs in the old HH ruleset.

It is possible to make marines really fast, it's just not easy and the Imperium is doctrinally opposed to it because of the Codex Astartes, the post HH reforms that divided up the Imperial armed forces and limited the size of space marine chapters put a lot of artificial barriers in place that Chaos isn't restricted by. During the Heresy both loyalists and traitors attempted mass inuduction and rapid development, as well as experiments on geneseed hybridisation, but they often resulted in inferior or unstable marines, so only the traitors kept doing it after the war.

*Defunct old word for surgeons. Gets intermittently applied to various doctors in 40k.
Makes you wonder just how much the plot would move forwards if the dark horse factions got off their arses and were allowed to use their toys. Necron tech, Dark Eldar tech, Dark Mechanicum all have the most apocalyptically scaled up versions of star-eating, warp defying/harnessing, AI deploying, dark age of technology/war in heaven era tech that constantly gets hyped up but never deployed


On an unrelated note what are some cool 40k planetary locations you've fought in/run games in? I've managed to successfully revive my Dark Heresy gaming group and they appreciate that I haven't been just siccing them on generic Hive world interiors all the time. At first I kept things varied because I hate the whole "This entire planet is a desert. This entire planet is a city. This entire planet is a jungle" kind of deal, but now that I know my players like this sort of variety I'm brainstorming more sorts of fun stuff you can get away with in a cosmically huge scifi setting

Some I've done so far:

-A tidally locked forge world that used the perpetually molten half of the planet as a refinery & the perpetually frozen half of the planet as a cogitator heat sink whilst everyone lives awkwardly in the middle, occasionally pelted by storms of molten minerals. Players sent to eliminate a tech-heretic who was using a piece of daemonic malware to hijack all the machines and cybernetics, the forge world couldn't send in anyone with cybernetics and so reached out to the inquisiton for a kill-team that was low-tech or dumb-tech in nature. Mission... Success, albeit at great cost with the deployment of a voidstrike missile and the loss of one party member and another party member imprisoned by the ordo malleus, presumed dead.

-An ocean world marked by numerous warring nomadic chiefdoms who traverse the great shallows on canoe, with next to no imperial presence beyond the occasional discovered relic or salvage, and a singular Mechanicus outpost run by a Magos who has no mechanical modifications, but is entirely modified using vat-grown organics. Players were from this world and I had great fun watching as they transformed from high-ranking warriors delivering victory for the chief and his trusty vizier to total fish out of water shocked at the size of the world beyond.

-An Earthlike world with numerous climates dominated by a vast ocean which separates the harsh and undeveloped faithful marshmen/hillmen from the and xenos/tau friendly urbanised cities. Each of these cities owed their wealth to commerce & high-tech services which flourished under the Tau Empire but had a resentful underground movement formed by all the unemployed craftsmen who used to make all the lasguns & other administratum goods for the Imperium. The towns and cities had futuristic skyscrapers instead of tau domes or Imperial gothic spires/hives, the only such gothic buildings being the ships/dig sites/old basilicas which were all that remained of the first colonists' presence from the age of strife.
They even had a Tau-funded and curated museum dedicated to their colonial past from before the Imperium of man! Which strikes me as the sort of thing the Tau would do. Both as a genuine method of education but also as a public relations master-stroke of showing the citizenry that their incorporation into the Tau Empire is just another notch in the string of history and the Imperium is not an eternal concept. The players operated under the assumption that they would have to keep their characters' imperial faith top secret but were shocked to find about a dozen sessions in that the planet's citizenry openly worshipped the Emperor, and had priests who held services (albeit removing the parts about killing all xenos/heretics/mutants and preaching more cosmic love).

-Under the underhive. What you'd expect from a hive setting... Except this time it was empty. Signs of gunfire and violence but no blood, bodies or ammunition to be found. Old pipes and machinery but no one operating them. The lights still work but they've all been left off. There's something in the darkness but you can't be sure. But the old' Ogryn knows it. And your boss is hiding something from you...

-Currently on a planet called Erebuni, named after its sole hive, also called Erebuni. They expected close street to street fighting and skulking around and actually seemed rather disappointed, but were pleasantly surprised when the game session was spent entirely in the neighbouring lowland where many petty Kingdoms ruled by principality chiefs/princes/bishops of many description govern a superstitious and low-tech patchwork of peasants. The peasants provide food/raw material to Erebuni hive, and Erebuni hive provides processed food/refined metals to its space elevator (itself a dark age of tech relic & site of pilgrimage for the cult of Mars) which brings everything up to Bailong Station for export to a neighbouring forge world.

-The raid on Bailong station was itself very successful with my players. The previous session their zealous witch-hunting had caused the peasants to become highly repentent and fervent in their beliefs. So this session they were reinforced by a gigantic horde of "flagellants." Queue the three elite sororitas equipped with relic-tier wargear infiltrating the station with a grain silo full of flagellants. It was thoroughly satisfying when they unleashed upon the noble family (that owned the station) the tide of flagellating zealots, vomiting forth against every unsealed hatch and doorway in a tumult of iconoclastic violence. Particularly amusing was the dock workers passing their willpower test to resist joining the mob, and all the spacers knowing when to call it quits and return to their ships "because these things happen." May even do a full write-up as it was a thoroughly enjoyable raid, even resulting in one of the PCs dying due to the heroic resistance of an unnamed mook - and one of the PCs nearly got killed by a leaf. (A catachan man-catcher plant). May do a full write-up if anyone wants to hear it xD

Some future ideas:
-The players lead a bunch of gangsters who have to fight off rival gangsters & invading arbites to seize control of coastal beach-front territory. Yet all of the gangsters and arbites have to band together for survival when they're attacked by tyranids who have slowly been infiltrating the ocean's entire biomass and ecosystem until they were ready to assault the surface and activate their shadow over innsmouth style genestealer cults. With all of the Imperium's forces stripped from this planet after an exhausting tithe, it's up to the criminals to repel the nascent splinter hive.

-A derelict spaceship. Not much different or original here except I want to change the descriptions from what they're used to. So less walking around claustrophobic hallways where everything is exposed asbestos pipes and gunmetal grate flooring. More velvet red carpets that kick up dust whenever you go walking by, golden banquet tables with food laid out exactly how its former occupants left them, true ghost ship feel whilst keeping it fully in-line with 40k's beautiful gothic aesthetic and grimdark atmosphere. I've thrown aliens at the PCs, humans at the PCs, but I am yet to really throw them into a haunted house story.

-A patchwork of orbital platforms in a gas giant. Standard sci-fi stuff, but I like the idea of the gas giant natives just casually walking around on cable-suspended walkways where a sudden storm or cable break could fling them to certain death below, but they don't mind because they're used to it and never fall down (except when they do. But it won't happen to them obviously). Especially when there's something in the mist that took them...

-A forge world that puts the human in inhuman. I want to show my players a tech-priest couple holding mechadendrites as they gaze lovingly at the vat-suspended fetuses which are their future progeny. Entire buildings operated by one operator who's physically wired themselves into the building GlaDOS style. A servitor tending to a garden because there's a faint trace of its personality remaining in its tortured hull. And a tech-priest being spiritually "executed" via an electromagnetic wiping of his brain augmentations whose last words are some numbers the PCs would realise are coordinates...

Grim Portent

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One idea for a planet I have is inspired by the WHFRP take on the Dark Lands human settlements where humans and goblins live in an uneasy arrangement based on mutual survival.

Gist of the idea is that the planet has a chronic infestation of feral orkz, but the humans that live outside the major settlements adopt them rather than fighting them, so the waste nomads/tribals/whatever are a mixture of humans and human-raised greenskins who exist in their own unique cultural niche. The 'civilised' humans occasionally try to wipe them out, but the planetary government lacks the resources to do so and the Imperium as a whole doesn't consider the Ork presence dangerous enough to warrant intervention. Some radical Inquisitors view the arrangement as rather useful, a way to recruit acolytes who are used to competing with orkz in their day to day lives, or even to recruit somewhat humanised orkz who are naturally suited to working as mercenaries.


Another, which I have mentioned here before, is a Mad Max/western themed scrapworld. The planet is covered in an inexplicable quantity of wrecks and ruins. Fleets worth of battleships, millions of rotting tank hulls, titans, alien warmachines and collapsed hive towers, but other than a few records of fighting in the Heresy there's no real explanation for why the planet is covered in so much wreckage.

The climate is arid, with sand that's rich in iron oxide, big pockets of compressed promethium that occasionally bubble up into lakes, the native population live in nomadic convoys of livestock and mad max style vehicles. Battlebuses, war buggies and so on. The Imperial presence is based out of a few cities built around spaceports and refineries that are present to exploit the rarer resources and technologies in the scrap and ruins. The locals and the Imperium don't get along, having diverged in various ways, but the cities trade food, water and fuel to the nomads in exchange for knowledge of locations or interest and rare items or junk.

Some of the locals have degenerated into cannibalistic 'rust ghouls,' feral abhumans who live in the wastes and construct chokepoints along major nomadic travel routes from which to launch ambushes. They have technology, but it's all primitive. Spears, axes, swords and such made of sharpened junk, crude prosthesis, buildings made by piling up things like ruined cars into barrows and artificial caves. How they survive is unclear, especially in the vast numbers they congregate in, but the Mechanicus speculates that their population groups are built around lost relics that extract water from the air or deep underground, ancient hydroponics systems, automated cloning facilities and so on. Technological oases lost to the rusted sands.
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There once was a dwarf in a cave,
who many would consider brave.
With a head like a block
he went out for a sock,
his ass I won't bother to save.

Duuvian

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FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

Loud Whispers

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One idea for a planet I have is inspired by the WHFRP take on the Dark Lands human settlements where humans and goblins live in an uneasy arrangement based on mutual survival.

Gist of the idea is that the planet has a chronic infestation of feral orkz, but the humans that live outside the major settlements adopt them rather than fighting them, so the waste nomads/tribals/whatever are a mixture of humans and human-raised greenskins who exist in their own unique cultural niche. The 'civilised' humans occasionally try to wipe them out, but the planetary government lacks the resources to do so and the Imperium as a whole doesn't consider the Ork presence dangerous enough to warrant intervention. Some radical Inquisitors view the arrangement as rather useful, a way to recruit acolytes who are used to competing with orkz in their day to day lives, or even to recruit somewhat humanised orkz who are naturally suited to working as mercenaries.
DIGGANOBZ GOOD

God I love digganobz. A feral world that is infested with feral humans/ogryns/orks/gargants sounds like a hell of a good time. Something about humans and orks co-existing in mutually agreeable violence just makes for a fun setting, and it's always a hell of a hilarious contrast when you can introduce some outsider (e.g. eldar/chaos/imperials land on the planet and all the warring tribes unite to annihilate the outsiders but then immediately go back to infighting the moment they're gone). I think that's a good way to introduce new chars, e.g. the players start off as feral worlders from that planet before they get nabbed by a radical inquisitor or rogue trader. For some reason I think this kind of planetary culture would get along with a band of Eldar exodites. Dinosaur riding hunter elves would fit just right in!

Another, which I have mentioned here before, is a Mad Max/western themed scrapworld. The planet is covered in an inexplicable quantity of wrecks and ruins. Fleets worth of battleships, millions of rotting tank hulls, titans, alien warmachines and collapsed hive towers, but other than a few records of fighting in the Heresy there's no real explanation for why the planet is covered in so much wreckage.

The climate is arid, with sand that's rich in iron oxide, big pockets of compressed promethium that occasionally bubble up into lakes, the native population live in nomadic convoys of livestock and mad max style vehicles. Battlebuses, war buggies and so on. The Imperial presence is based out of a few cities built around spaceports and refineries that are present to exploit the rarer resources and technologies in the scrap and ruins. The locals and the Imperium don't get along, having diverged in various ways, but the cities trade food, water and fuel to the nomads in exchange for knowledge of locations or interest and rare items or junk.

Some of the locals have degenerated into cannibalistic 'rust ghouls,' feral abhumans who live in the wastes and construct chokepoints along major nomadic travel routes from which to launch ambushes. They have technology, but it's all primitive. Spears, axes, swords and such made of sharpened junk, crude prosthesis, buildings made by piling up things like ruined cars into barrows and artificial caves. How they survive is unclear, especially in the vast numbers they congregate in, but the Mechanicus speculates that their population groups are built around lost relics that extract water from the air or deep underground, ancient hydroponics systems, automated cloning facilities and so on. Technological oases lost to the rusted sands.
I like to think there is also an ecological element to why people are constantly on the move instead of forming scavenger towns (or maybe there are scavenger towns?). Like maybe the planet rotates really slowly and one side is buffeted by gamma radiation, so semi-permanent habitation is easily manageable but building permanent settlements is pointless as you have to keep migrating east to avoid radiation season. Maybe the rust ghouls mutated to survive the radiation, and the reason why no one can eradicate them is because they dwell in the radiation zone. Or perhaps deep underground scavenger towns, "scavs" dwell.

Some other ideas:
-For the gas giant planet with the floating orbital cities, SKY WHALES. Can't believe I forgot to add sky whales. Sky whales are always cool.

-A world that is literally a carbon copy of the Warhammer old world. I could never get enough of all the little crossover easter eggs where a band of marauders would attack a space marine squad, complement their fighting skills, gift them a warp-imbued sword before returning home with a looted chainsword. Or stuff where plague zombie outbreaks or reports of rats mutating and overruning imperial worlds would let you reuse your plague zombie models and skaven models for 40k skirmish crossovers. Old ones literally being the old ones. And after playing a lot of stronghold again I really dig the anachronistic vibe of having dudes armed with heavy stubbers trying to intervene in a castle siege being fought by nurgle demons/cultists vs guys armed with wall guns and culverins.

-A desert world that is actually rich in water and climate diversity... But still deserts. Cold polar deserts, river-run fertile desert valleys, coastal volcanic black-sand beaches, rocky pebble deserts, iron red sand deserts, fine glassy deserts! Alpha Centauri mind worms or dune sand worms are practically mandatory.

-A paradise garden world that is basically being used as a retirement home for:
A. Imperial heroes who are too lauded/knowledgeable/important/respected to discard, too damaged/vulnerable to keep in front-line service, too dangerous/controversial to keep in active leadership.
B. Imperial political/military/mercantile leaders who cajoled their way out of service and onto the planet in order to retire in safety and comfort.
C. Very lucky guardsmen/voidsmen who survived complete tours across the galaxy with distinguished merit.
I don't think I would run any cult conspiracies or big alien fights or anything like that. I think a paradise world should just be a paradise world; if everything is a place of danger players don't feel it as much. But with the contrast of leaving safety to enter places of danger, it stands out much more. But having this assembly of broken heroes scarred by their duties still keeps things in that 40k mood of "glory in decline" whilst keeping the planet itself a paradise.

Yes
Thanks man, I honestly appreciate the interest. Makes it worth the scant time writing a gorillion wall of text xD

Full writeup here. It ended up being too long to post ITT

Grim Portent

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I like to think there is also an ecological element to why people are constantly on the move instead of forming scavenger towns (or maybe there are scavenger towns?). Like maybe the planet rotates really slowly and one side is buffeted by gamma radiation, so semi-permanent habitation is easily manageable but building permanent settlements is pointless as you have to keep migrating east to avoid radiation season. Maybe the rust ghouls mutated to survive the radiation, and the reason why no one can eradicate them is because they dwell in the radiation zone. Or perhaps deep underground scavenger towns, "scavs" dwell.

My thought is that the populace used to be more settled, but most such settlements have been lost and the bulk of the natives have become nomads or rust ghouls as a response to the climate becoming more arid, ancient technology breaking, the spread of diseases, increasing concentrations of metal oxides rendering the soil largely infertile and the arrival of the Imperium who have somewhat replaced the already struggling agricultural workers with scavengers by trading long lasting nutritionally balanced foodstuffs and water in exchange for technological remnants.

To non-natives without biologically or cybernetically augmented lungs the air is abrasive and will kill within weeks without proper protection, as tiny shards of rust and other oxides enter the lungs. Natives and rust ghouls can survive for years breathing this air, but doing so without protection will eventually lead to cancerous tumours and/or heavy metal poisoning which shorten their lifespan to roughly thirty years on average.

The Mechanicus is in de facto control of the planet, being more or less entirely responsible for keeping the space ports functioning, and having a near total monopoly on the import of food, water and medicine. The Magos in charge has calculated that there is almost certainly one or more items of immeasurable value on the planet, moreso even than the already known and malfunctioning dark age machines that act as sources of food and water, or the automated cloning bays deep in some of the ruins, and has determined the she alone will be the one to find them and take them off world. As she is paranoid that her superiors would confiscate the planet from her if they knew what she suspects lies there she keeps the Mechanicus presence as minimal as she can without losing control to the Administratum.

Occasionally a nomad clan will be attacked in the night by 'blue-eyed ghosts,' the Skitarii agents of the Magos seeking to acquire finds of particular significance before they can be sold to the scrap traders of the city-ports and potentially become common knowledge among rumour mongers.


For the rust ghouls specifically, they're a mixture of humans who turned to cannibalism out of desperation and degenerated, the result of centuries or millennia of inbreeding, faulty cloning systems, and the possibly mythical influence of the Dark Man, a spirit that wanders the world disguised as a man dressed all in black. A reference to Western ideas of the devil as a well spoken man who wanders the world in a black suit. The Dark Man is worshipped by rust ghouls regardless of their origin, as well as by some nomad communities, especially the rogue psykers that crop up among them. His actual involvement in the planet, if he even exists, is minimal, he has little to no tangible power, but among the throngs of mystics who are simply lying, hallucinating, suffering from diseases of the mind or delusions of grandeur there are a small handful who are guided by whispers and prophecies from the Dark Man.

Some legends attribute the Dark Man as being able to deactivate or reactivate ancient machinery, causing food fabricators to stop all production and settlements to starve, until they sacrifice and consume their own in offering to the spirit, at which point the device turns back on, providing sustainable nourishment to what is now a fledgling ghoul clan. Certainly some cloning devices that have been recovered and deactivated by the Mechanicus have turned back on without warning, pouring out a horde of cannibalistic naked degenerates that have overrun more than a few salvage outposts in the wastes, which leads the Mechanicus to suspect something is amiss, and the Skitarii and lesser machine-priests whisper of scrapcode and techno-viruses lingering in the ruins.



Another idea I have is for an ocean planet. A former Ice-World that was terraformed into a vast ocean tens of millennia ago, before the oceans of Terra dried up. The planet was used as a wildlife preserve for remaning ocean fauna by a long forgotten group or individual. When the terraforming process got out of control and they found themselves unable to prevent the total thaw of the planet's ice and the subsequent drowning of the landmasses, the human population began to splice their genetic code with that of various terran derived sea creatures. As the continents were submerged the surface of the ocean became prone to extremely unstable weather, shattering the shallow-water laboratories and surface level spaceports that remained, with no more reason to stay near the surface the post-humans retreated into the deeper waters to hide from the crashing waves and violent winds. There the populace lost access to much of it's technology, only able to fashion and use the most primitive of tools when their travels brought them near the sea floor or coral reefs, their new anatomy ill suited to holding onto their dwindling technology.

After being rediscovered by a Rogue Trader from House Milatch, a trade house specialising in consumable goods such as food, intoxicants and textiles, a tentative contact was established with the now abhuman populace. The extreme weather conditions make permanent settlement by normal humans difficult, so other than a few underwater refineries and research posts there is little Imperial presence on the planet, though a space station sits in orbit to store materials transported from the planet to await collection by ships of House Milatch. The primary export of the planet is various rare delicacies and narcotics, derived from local fauna and flora. Between genetic tampering and the rapid pace of evolution in Warhammer few of the animals and plants are recognisable as their extinct terran progenitors, but they remain compatible with the human palate, a source of pride for those able to serve them at feasts, parties and drug fueled orgies. Few humans in the 41st millennium can say they they ate a tuna, even if that tuna barely resembles what we would call a tuna today.

The deepest waters of the planet also contain veins of adamantium ore. Due to the depths it isn't financially viable for conventional mining, but the abhumans have proven able to learn the basics of machine operation and maintenance, utilising adapted mining equipment to gather ore to be delivered to space. It is not a major export, but it is present and makes a respectable sum for House Milatch.

The deepest abyssal depths of the planet are home to the rulers of the native abhumans. These abyssals are vast, biologically lethargic beings, their genetics spliced with creatures like whales, deep sea crustaceans and giant cephalopods. They live for hundreds of years and can only survive in the shallows for brief periods. While the majority of the abhumans still resemble humans, albeit altered and disfigured by pelagic genetics, the abyssals were so massively altered as to lose almost all human qualities other than their minds, intended to be a last resort way to store the memories and culture of the planet before it drowned, in hopes of passing it on to spaceborne rescuers. These abyssals are friendly towards, if rather envious of, normal humans. Due to their low metabolic activity and the cold crushing depths in which they live they cannot communicate quickly, a brief conversation can take hours, and must be performed via abhuman intermediaries or with specialised equipment. House Milatch's assigned governor is convinced that the abyssals possess knowledge of partially intact ancient technology that was sunk beneath the waves but not destroyed by storms of geological activity, and is doggedly attempting to pry the information out of the leviathans.

These efforts may be in vain, for the planet is facing a threat it is ill suited to defend itself against. Among the off-world workers brought in by House Milatch were members of a cult of Khorne, whose foul practices have spread to the local abhumans. They seek to connect the world to the cursed ocean planet of Furia, a daemon world of the Screaming Vortex where half-daemon monsters roam the seas. Should they succeed, the planet and any wonders of the ancient colonists forgotten beneath it's waves will be lost, dragged into the swirling chaos storm, where they will only serve the Imperium's most dreadful enemy.
Logged
There once was a dwarf in a cave,
who many would consider brave.
With a head like a block
he went out for a sock,
his ass I won't bother to save.

MrRoboto75

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  • Belongs in the Trash!
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Return to crab!?
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I consume
I purchase
I consume again

Grim Portent

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Return to crab!?

Reject humanity, return to fish.


Less flippantly, I imagine the leviathans as a sort of living supercomputer, but incredibly slow for matters not relevant to their immediate survival like eating, and slow to human eyes even for that sort of thing in the manner of most deep sea life. Slow metabolisms and almost glacial thoughts, but with a capacity for knowledge and a lifespan that makes them well suited to remembering the dying days of their civilisation.

What has been hundreds of generations for normal men has been less than a dozen for all but the youngest of them, and swaddled by the eternal night of the abyssal plain they sing long slow songs of the past to an audience that could never understand it, and even with their relative proximity to that past it is already being lost to the mists of myth and legend.
Logged
There once was a dwarf in a cave,
who many would consider brave.
With a head like a block
he went out for a sock,
his ass I won't bother to save.

Loud Whispers

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    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH

To non-natives without biologically or cybernetically augmented lungs the air is abrasive and will kill within weeks without proper protection, as tiny shards of rust and other oxides enter the lungs. Natives and rust ghouls can survive for years breathing this air, but doing so without protection will eventually lead to cancerous tumours and/or heavy metal poisoning which shorten their lifespan to roughly thirty years on average.
I like to think this also comes with a gnarly dark-red cough and some awful foreboding name. Rust lung? The wracks?


Occasionally a nomad clan will be attacked in the night by 'blue-eyed ghosts,' the Skitarii agents of the Magos seeking to acquire finds of particular significance before they can be sold to the scrap traders of the city-ports and potentially become common knowledge among rumour mongers.
This is amazing imagery. Mechanicus boys have always been terrifying

-snip- Certainly some cloning devices that have been recovered and deactivated by the Mechanicus have turned back on without warning, pouring out a horde of cannibalistic naked degenerates that have overrun more than a few salvage outposts in the wastes, which leads the Mechanicus to suspect something is amiss, and the Skitarii and lesser machine-priests whisper of scrapcode and techno-viruses lingering in the ruins.
What is the Dark Man? A potent psyker? Rogue AI? Series of coincidences attributed to a single bit of folklore?

Few humans in the 41st millennium can say they they ate a tuna, even if that tuna barely resembles what we would call a tuna today.
I love everything about your tuna world. Whale-humans are amazing. Having khornates searching for whale-men skulls is Ahab-approved. I imagine the whale-men might even be valuable/localised enough to get administratum sanctioning as a permitted and stable human mutation... Though normal imperials/astartes might be unnerved by their extremely altered forms. I just love ocean worlds... Something intrinsic in the human brain of just understanding "this is their world and you're just a visitor"

I was brainstorming whilst stuck on a long-haul flight about tyranids and the ocean, as I try and come up with a lore-plausible tyranid-ocean story. This is what I've come up with so far and I'm hoping there aren't any glaring holes I can't fill in:

-Tyranids first recorded consumption of an Imperial world, Tyran, was an ocean world which was harsh, stormy and held powerful megafauna like native krakens.
-Fenrisian Kraken is suspected to be a tyranid organism which went feral, which would make it the only canon appearance of a fully aquatic tyranid
-Fenrisian Kraken and Catachan Devils are both suspected to be feral tyranids, cut off from the hive-mind. Which means that it is fully possible for a tyranid to evolve to the point where it loses its connection to the hive mind and stops being a psionically linked creature
-Aquatic tyranids are most certainly canon even though we only see amphibious/land/air/void based tyranids most of the time. It's just that if tyranids take over an ocean, the first thing they do is construct capillary towers to begin sucking the ocean dry into space

Scenario idea:
Day one of nid-ocean
A tyranid vanguard fleet was annihilated in orbit, but managed to get a few spores to land in the ocean. The nids just drown and die, but some bottom-feeding fish accidentally get infected after feeding on active nid corpses/phages/spores, becoming the first tyranid foothold on the ocean biosphere.

Month six of nid-ocean
The bottom feeders evolve and adapt with each successive generation of breeding. Start to see the emergence of recognisably "tyranid" strains of ripper swarm, only these ones resemble lamprey eels. These swarms of tyranid lamprey eels devastate local fishing stocks and attack commercial divers, but otherwise continue to struggle with all the restrictions of the harsh ocean climate and availability of resources. Fishermen may occasionally discover ripper-eels in their catches. A few brave sailors may even eat some. First infiltration of human society by tyranids results. Imperial authorities become aware of an invasive xenos species and higher reports of mutation. Purges ensue; the tyranid infestation may even be severely curtailed.

Year one of nid-ocean
The tyranid hive mind acquires enough biomass and lifeforms to begin producing synapse-creatures. Giant jellyfish style zoanthropes/venomthrope hybrids and krakens who assert their control over localised swarms. As the ocean is vast the hive mind is not fully unified at any given moment, but it is there. It begins learning from its infected humans how the Imperial government bodies organise responses and directs its tyranid lifeforms to change tactics. It stops producing vast swarms of ripper-eels and identifies the Imperial land-presence as the primary obstacle to world consumption. Tyranid lifeforms get smaller - more emphasis on using parasites and spores to infiltrate local coral/fish species, and using compromised human cultists to contaminate more water supplies across the planet. Plenty of inspiration from real ocean parasites, like those gnarly ones that remove a fish's tongue and becomes their new tongue. Or the IRL genestealer that manipulates a crab into looking after its parasite's brood by hijacking its reproductive system. Imagine tyranid parasites that try to replace you ship of Theseus style until you're more tyranid than man.

Year 2-10 of nid-ocean
At some point the hive-mind will reach sufficient mass, that it will be a true unified hive-mind. It will be able to organise a coherent strategy and begin producing advanced tyranid warforms, and will attempt to connect with the greater tyranid hive mind to call in reinforcements from orbit. If it can get a hive fleet from orbit then it consumes the ocean as per normal. If something awry happens, e.g. a warp storm blocks it from calling the greater hive mind, then it will eventually reach a point where it decides it must eliminate land-based resistance before it is purged.

Day one of nid-ocean invasion
Crabnifexes. Termashrimps and jellythropes. Fishmen cults, men and animals encrusted with stinging tyranid corals come crashing down on the land as all the ocean's biomass is mobilised against the land-dwellers.
At this point either the land dwellers are doomed, or they survive and win against all odds. If they win however, the oceans will likely remain tyranid infested forever. Even if their swarm is broken, feral nids will survive, with the potential to evolve back into hivemind capable tyranid creatures
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