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[Meph]

No.

I might add something, otherwise fighting in the caverns is impossible, but generally speaking mining should be done in an open quarry. But I think making a workshop with "equip unit with torch" to give them immunity to being underground will make sense for later stages. Sadly, Rendermax cant play into that.

Best solution would be an item that can be assigned with the uniform, that way soldiers can have it, and you dont have to do much micromangement. Just assign a "torch" item, which is actually a shield, and done. I do like that idea. The uniform bug with miners would even mean that miners cant us it, because they would drop the shield when they start mining, but it works fine for military.

He. While typing this I found the solution. Great. Torches as shields. Military can fight underground with special item, miners cant use it.

[Meph]

Ideas for the race-specific traders. Its buy-only, with 10 special creatures, objects or materials each.

#########################################################################################################
///succubus

1 basiliskine armorset
2 stygian bronze pitchfork
3 soul wisp
4 tentacle monster
5 pitchfork ammo
6 crystal glass blocks
7 slade boulder
8 orthus
9 clear glass blocks
10 warpstone boulder

#########################################################################################################
///warlock

1 wraithblade
2 magestaff
3 flesh runerobe
4 monolith
5 pylon
6 bloodsteel scythe
7 dreadnought armorset
8 bone blocks
9 bloodwine drink
10 Black Marble Gargoyle

#########################################################################################################
///kobold

1 random assortement of leathers
2 random assortement of trap comps
3 random assortememnt of dyes
4 slowpoke poison
5 swamp fever poison
6 toad shots
7 random assortement of teas
8 bonerattle armorset
9 booby trap with ammo
10 kaolinite boulders

#########################################################################################################
///goblin

1 ransom a peasant male => get a new worker
2 ransom a peasant female => get a new worker
3 rusty iron scourges (5)
4 rusty iron bows (5)
5 rusty iron bodkin arrows (10x25)
6 rusty iron armor sets (5)
7 rusty iron trap comps (5)
8 evil plants - random assortement
9 evil logs - glumprong
10 barghest
 
#########################################################################################################
///orc

1 Handcrafted flachette gun with ammo
2 lamellar wargear set
3 ulfzerker/opaque/clanleader mask
4 Handcrafted tribal bloodsteel claws
5 Handcrafted mithril daikatana
6 detonator satchel
7 black draught mead (rejuvenation)
8 druidic ivyvine whip with ammo
9 ebonglass bars
10 ashland glass bars

#########################################################################################################
///drow

1 giant drow spider
2 rothes
3 nether horror poison
4 netherbark armor set
5 nethercap seeds
6 bloodsteel bladewhip
7 bloodsteel razorplate armor
8 ironbone bars
9 silk thread and cloth
10 banespider poison

#########################################################################################################
///dwarf

1 golem - sword
2 turret - firejet
3 landmine - hellfire
4 wolfram warhammer
5 deepbronze great axe
6 orichalcum battle pick
7 tear of armok => water generation
8 blood of armok => magma generation
9 fossil/relic/teasure => take to archaeolgist for random reward
10 volcanic bar => twice as good as steel
 
#########################################################################################################
///human

1 pistols
2 muskets
3 cannons
4 bullets
5 cannonballs
6 steel plate armor sets
7 steel halberd
8 random race contract
9 marble blocks => lots of them, for aboveground in white
10 obsidian blocks => lots of them, for aboveground in black

#########################################################################################################
///gnome

1 clockwork helmet
2 powered armor
3 motorized pants
4 rocket boot
5 cage-o-matic launcher with ammo
6 clockwork vibroblade
7 clockwork tortoise
8 mechanical spider tank
9 clockwork scorpion
10 mechanical dragon
 
#########################################################################################################
///elf

1 feather wood
2 assortememnt of good plants
3 feather great bow
4 feather singing arrows
5 mithril bars
6 mithril root armor sets
7 grizzly bear
8 raptors
9 regrowth spell (all saplings grow to trees)
10 regrass spell (all grass gets redone)

While the foreign craftsmen do these:

Code: [Select]

Craftsmen
----- Dwarf => Runesmith, puts runes on armors
----- Elf => turns saplings into (2) wood logs, turns seeds into plants, turns acorns into logs. (you dont get new acornd that way)
----- Gnome => Inventor, makes crazy gnome itemsyndrome gear (human sized)
----- Goblin => mass-produce mechanisms, cages, cheap trap-comps.
----- Kobold => Pottery, makes clay/fireclay/porcelain items
----- Warlock => animate corpses, create black monolith, pylons (helps their caravans), and teaches basic spells (4-5 maybe)
----- Succubus => summons demonic pets for souls
----- Drow => Poisoner, puts poisons on weapons/ammo
----- Orc => handcrafts weapons
----- Human => gunsmith. pistols, muskets, hand-cannons, bullets, cannonballs. (requires chemist - blackpowder)

[Arcvasti]

I LIKE this plan.

[arbarbonif]

For black above ground blocks you should use basalt (or diorite).  Obsidian is a fairly light gray in a lot of things.

[Meph]

For black above ground blocks you should use basalt (or diorite).  Obsidian is a fairly light gray in a lot of things.

Its as black as it gets in DF.

[Crysalis]

It will be good to see really tired and slow underground human miners)
But if i will build great castle above ground. with roof ofc, it won't count as underground?

[Meph]

It will be good to see really tired and slow underground human miners)
But if i will build great castle above ground. with roof ofc, it won't count as underground?

No. Its inside/aboveground, while the other is inside/underground.

Same way you cant plant plump helmets on the surface under a constructed roof.

[Meph]

Dev Log - Day 14

I made a plan for the uses of the 10 race-specific traders and the 10 race-specific workshops. The kobold potter is finished already, the rest are just ideas so far, but I will start working on those today.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ideas for the race-specific traders. Its buy-only, with 10 special creatures, objects or materials each.

#########################################################################################################
///succubus

1 basiliskine armorset
2 stygian bronze pitchfork
3 soul wisp
4 tentacle monster
5 pitchfork ammo
6 crystal glass blocks
7 slade boulder
8 orthus
9 clear glass blocks
10 warpstone boulder

#########################################################################################################
///warlock

1 wraithblade
2 magestaff
3 flesh runerobe
4 monolith
5 pylon
6 bloodsteel scythe
7 dreadnought armorset
8 bone blocks
9 bloodwine drink
10 Black Marble Gargoyle

#########################################################################################################
///kobold

1 random assortement of leathers
2 random assortement of trap comps
3 random assortememnt of dyes
4 slowpoke poison
5 swamp fever poison
6 toad shots
7 random assortement of teas
8 bonerattle armorset
9 booby trap with ammo
10 kaolinite boulders

#########################################################################################################
///goblin

1 ransom a peasant male => get a new worker
2 ransom a peasant female => get a new worker
3 rusty iron scourges (5)
4 rusty iron bows (5)
5 rusty iron bodkin arrows (10x25)
6 rusty iron armor sets (5)
7 rusty iron trap comps (5)
8 evil plants - random assortement
9 evil logs - glumprong
10 barghest
 
#########################################################################################################
///orc

1 Handcrafted flachette gun with ammo
2 lamellar wargear set
3 ulfzerker/opaque/clanleader mask
4 Handcrafted tribal bloodsteel claws
5 Handcrafted mithril daikatana
6 detonator satchel
7 black draught mead (rejuvenation)
8 druidic ivyvine whip with ammo
9 ebonglass bars
10 ashland glass bars

#########################################################################################################
///drow

1 giant drow spider
2 rothes
3 nether horror poison
4 netherbark armor set
5 nethercap seeds
6 bloodsteel bladewhip
7 bloodsteel razorplate armor
8 ironbone bars
9 silk thread and cloth
10 banespider poison

#########################################################################################################
///dwarf

1 golem - sword
2 turret - firejet
3 landmine - hellfire
4 wolfram warhammer
5 deepbronze great axe
6 orichalcum battle pick
7 tear of armok => water generation
8 blood of armok => magma generation
9 fossil/relic/teasure => take to archaeolgist for random reward
10 volcanic bar => twice as good as steel
 
#########################################################################################################
///human

1 pistols
2 muskets
3 cannons
4 bullets
5 cannonballs
6 steel plate armor sets
7 steel halberd
8 random race contract
9 marble blocks => lots of them, for aboveground in white
10 obsidian blocks => lots of them, for aboveground in black

#########################################################################################################
///gnome

1 clockwork helmet
2 powered armor
3 motorized pants
4 rocket boot
5 cage-o-matic launcher with ammo
6 clockwork vibroblade
7 clockwork tortoise
8 mechanical spider tank
9 clockwork scorpion
10 mechanical dragon
 
#########################################################################################################
///elf

1 feather wood
2 assortememnt of good plants
3 feather great bow
4 feather singing arrows
5 mithril bars
6 mithril root armor sets
7 grizzly bear
8 raptors
9 regrowth spell (all saplings grow to trees)
10 regrass spell (all grass gets redone)

While the foreign craftsmen do these:

Code: [Select]

Craftsmen
----- Dwarf => Runesmith, puts runes on armors
----- Elf => turns saplings into (2) wood logs, turns seeds into plants, turns acorns into logs. (you dont get new acornd that way)
----- Gnome => Inventor, makes crazy gnome itemsyndrome gear (human sized)
----- Goblin => mass-produce mechanisms, cages, cheap trap-comps.
----- Kobold => Pottery, makes clay/fireclay/porcelain items
----- Warlock => animate corpses, create black monolith, pylons (helps their caravans), and teaches basic spells (4-5 maybe)
----- Succubus => summons demonic pets for souls
----- Drow => Poisoner, puts poisons on weapons/ammo
----- Orc => handcrafts weapons
----- Human => gunsmith. pistols, muskets, hand-cannons, bullets, cannonballs. (requires chemist - blackpowder)

I expanded the 12 basic merchants to 16. Leather, Ranged Weapons, Pets and Crafts are new. I did finish the designs, buildings, the setup to transform the "Merchant Stall (local)" to any of these 16 workshops, and all reactions for 14 (!) of them. Only 2 left to do, and all the local merchants will be done.

I added the anti-cave adaption to the human creature file. They are now slowed down when they stay underground more than one ingame day, and get dizzy after 1 week. 2-3 weeks it gets worse... I might add boogyemen and nighthags that spawn when you stay even longer underground. These should instantly die when they get to aboveground/light tiles. I might add a "torch" item, which is actually a shield which makes soldiers immune to such effects. This way you can have soldiers that fight in the caverns without getting slow/dizzy/insane.

I also added a new noble, the Bureaucrat. A great idea by black47, this noble does all that bookkeeper, manager and broker does, and you can make as many as you like.

[Endovior]

I also added a new noble, the Bureaucrat. A great idea by black47, this noble does all that bookkeeper, manager and broker does, and you can make as many as you like.

Ew, multiple brokers.

I mean, the option to have multiple brokers isn't intrinsically terrible, and I can see some advantage to it, especially if I'm going to have my depot busy all the time.  On the other hand, requiring that all my managers and bookkeepers also be able to conduct trade is a big punch in the ability to profitably deal with foreign merchants, which is horrible for a trade-based faction.

Split the Bureaucrat-as-is into Bureaucrats and Traders, please?  There's nothing stopping any given Bureaucrat from also being a Trader, but the option to specifically control who trades by controlling access to the broker role is really important.

[Meph]

If you dont like them, dont use them? You still have a managar, broker and bookkeeper.

[Endovior]

If you dont like them, dont use them? You still have a managar, broker and bookkeeper.

That's less bad, I guess; I was reading Bureaucrats as a replacement for those positions, not an addition.

That said, it'd still be preferable to have broker-status decoupled from manager/bookkeeper status.  After all, there's no bad effects from having extra unskilled guys doing record keeping, or approving jobs, or whatever... but if extra unskilled guys are trading, that's a large hassle, since you won't know stuff like 'the value of the goods in question' and 'the willingness of the trader in question to trade'.  Of course, with a trade-based faction, you'll still probably get to the point where you want multiple traders eventually... it's just less useful to have that functionality tied to the unskilled labor of the manager/bookkeeper, since you can't reasonably appoint anyone as a bureaucrat without first arranging for them to be trained in broker skills.  The university system makes it less of a pain to arrange that training, but it's still an unnecessary hassle, that would be better fixed by keeping trader status as a separate thing.

[Meph]

The entire point is to have MORE TRADERS. Seriously, the manager/bookkeeper is just fluff, the only reason that the bureaucrats exist are more traders.

That's less bad, I guess;

There is not a single downside to this.

[splinterz]

If you dont like them, dont use them? You still have a managar, broker and bookkeeper.

That's less bad, I guess; I was reading Bureaucrats as a replacement for those positions, not an addition.

That said, it'd still be preferable to have broker-status decoupled from manager/bookkeeper status.  After all, there's no bad effects from having extra unskilled guys doing record keeping, or approving jobs, or whatever... but if extra unskilled guys are trading, that's a large hassle, since you won't know stuff like 'the value of the goods in question' and 'the willingness of the trader in question to trade'.  Of course, with a trade-based faction, you'll still probably get to the point where you want multiple traders eventually... it's just less useful to have that functionality tied to the unskilled labor of the manager/bookkeeper, since you can't reasonably appoint anyone as a bureaucrat without first arranging for them to be trained in broker skills.  The university system makes it less of a pain to arrange that training, but it's still an unnecessary hassle, that would be better fixed by keeping trader status as a separate thing.

you know what's a bigger pain? trying to get your sleeping/eating/whatever trader to actually trade. i'd much rather be able to trade with a lower level trader than not trade at all.

[Endovior]

The entire point is to have MORE TRADERS. Seriously, the manager/bookkeeper is just fluff, the only reason that the bureaucrats exist are more traders.

That's less bad, I guess;

There is not a single downside to this.

Sorry if I came off as overly critical; let me rephrase, then.  It is strictly superior to the default system to have the option of assigning generic bureaucrats that do all the skills, since you are otherwise dependant on the whims of a single noble, who might be inconveniently asleep or whatever.  However, it would be even better if there was a distinction between the paperwork skills and the social skills, since the latter is more sensitive to unskilled labour.  Given that the paperwork skills part is generally lower priority than the social skills part, how much better the option to have extra bureaucrats separate from extra traders is depends entirely on how heavily you use the manager interface.

It's certainly a workable setup to have the default manager/bookkeeper/broker slots exist alongside an arbitrary number of bureaucrats, with the intention being that you'll be adding extra bureaucrats purely out of the ranks of merchant guild members with appropriate training.  That said, for end-user simplicity and overall bloat reduction, it'd be more straightforward and involve less micromanagement if the default manager/bookkeeper/broker were replaced by arbitrarily assignable traders and bureaucrats.

[Meph]

In that case I also could make brokers, managers and bookkeepers AS_NEEDED, instead of 1. I dont think managers actually do anything, besides unlocking the screen, and bookkeepers certainly dont do anything after the first 3-4 months that you need to fully get your highest precision.

I am working on the manual atm. Its surprisingly empty for humans, because they have barely any new items, no new materials at all, and do not use super special magic or dfhack scripts. Except the pantheon, which I have to ask IndigoFenix to write a little text about. Pets are the normal vanilla pets, so people do know them... weapons and armors are the ones already in the mod... all in all its mostly giving info about TRADE, OPEN QUARRY MINING and MONEY. Thats the three things that are different. Tons of caravans, aboveground living arrangements and coins everywhere. ^^

And of course a few words about the workshops, but I am unsure how much info I should do. I honestly contemplate making the manual more of a guideline...

"workshop x: this workshop does this and that for this and that, and is generally needed for that, while it depends on this." , without giving intricate info about reagents, products, amounts, etc. People can figure that out for themselves, and the diligent can make a wiki page with full details. With 7200 reactions I really dont see how sensible it would be to add all details about each one. Especially if its one person doing this, and if many of them get outdated sooner or later.