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Yes, he was awesome!

9 (6%)

Yes, for reasons I will post in the thread.

4 (2.7%)

No, and I hate fun and I like to step on cats.

30 (20%)

No, for a NON HATEFUL, LEGITIMATE REASON i will post in the thread.

54 (36%)

I take a neutral stance on this.

38 (25.3%)

Who is GWG?

15 (10%)

Total Members Voted: 150

[BlitzDungeoneer]

Actually, how is this on GWGs request? Wouldn't this have been made after he was banned?

[Darvi]

Oddly enough, there's other ways you can talk to people.

[IamanElfCollaborator]

No. If someone did something either offensive enough or often enough to get banned they deserve it. Though from what I have heard the muting seems somewhat light-hearted as a warning. I don't know if it just isn't possible or if it just hasn't come up but 3 days or a week just doesn't say this is a serious matter you need to change your behaviour clear enough for me. I don't know the actual numbers but what I have seen so far goes like that. I assume there is more to it in terms of communication (ie, you did this don't in the future) but I do think the length of the mute should be more significant just to nail home how seriously Toady takes doing such things.

It is. He's muted forever.

Yeah but at this point it is too late for him to modify his behavior. So it only functions as a warning to others not to him. If I  hadn't stumbled across this I would think a three day mute was a slap on the wrist unless whatever communication I received in conjunction with it was incredibly clear. I have lost track of the number of times I have written out a post and not posted it but thought I did and my memory of posts I have made isn't always so great either. If it was still there I would go look for what caused the issue but seeing as Toady would likely have removed it I wouldn't be able to do so. I don't think this was the case with GWG but if I could see it as a slap on the wrist it stands to reason someone else could as well.

The thing here is that most people stick to the rules and keep themselves in line when Toady DOES hand down a punishment. It's very simply that GWG, despite multiple punishments, still went on violating the rules and thus he was banned. People are usually very aware of what happens when someone is muted- as I've said somewhere, I've only seen ONE ban and two mutes in my time here on Bay12.

[BlitzDungeoneer]

I'm aware of that, yes. So, he contacted somebody on something else, and asked them, presumably IG, to make this?

[EmeraldWind]

I don't like to see people get banned.

Even though, I admit I can't really say if GWG should be unbanned or not.

I've been in one argument with GWG which had a Toady intercession (just a warning in general)... but it wasn't exactly an argument from my side of things.
I was just trying to explain my thoughts to him and he kept interpreting them in the most frustratingly asinine way. It got to the point where I wasn't even sure if he really didn't understand me or was deliberately trolling me for no reason other than the fact he didn't agree with me.

He also had a way of sounding sarcastic when refuting another person. On top of that he would often seem to frustratingly misinterpret others and sarcastically fling it in the other's face. So it wasn't just me. 

Here's a conversation I stepped into involving GWG.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But Missingno isn't scrambled nor corrupted data. It's the result of the game trying to read something that has nothing allocated in it.

Minor detail. The point still stands.
(And technically, it is the result of scrambled data. I'd say "name in the Pokemon encounterable data" counts as scrambled, neh?)

I'd same the name only counts as scrambled data if it is in fact scrambled data rather than garbage data or a hard-coded default value. I'm not sure if there is any actual data in the storage or if it is garbage data or if it is something else that the game is attempting to read as Pokémon data.

If you read that wiki page you posted, it seems that the person you are correcting was correct in the first place. So there doesn't seem to be a need for your correction.

Tell me, what is the distinction between "scrambling" and "corrupting"? What would happen if you scrambled, to pick a not-at-all-random example, the data on a Pokemon?

I meant "scrambling" as in "temporarily disrupting", ala EMP bomb. My bad for not being more specific.

Ah.
Well, it sure looked like something more...you know...deep. Permanent.

... Are you serious here? I mean this is ridiculously nitpicky. Why not offer your definition of scrambling and corrupting to make it easier to it explain to you? It seems the more a person attempts to explain themselves to you the more deliberately you nitpick them.

I actually got frustrated for the other person's sake because he either was very stupid (which I don't think he was) or he was deliberately trolling the other forumite.

To be fair, other than being a bit annoyed with him I didn't dislike him. When he wasn't being a borderline troll, he had good points and ideas.

The only problem I see is that unbanning him seems unlikely, because Toady said he was specifically tired of cleaning up after him. Toady gave him warnings and mutes, so I think he was treated fairly. You also got to consider how hard it is to get banned in this forum. People tolerate a lot.

I think in the long run, he made his bed and has to sleep in it. Whatever good qualities he had, he broke the rules and ignored warnings. It is a shame to see a Bay12er get banned, but that's the way it is.

[Graknorke]

No. If someone did something either offensive enough or often enough to get banned they deserve it. Though from what I have heard the muting seems somewhat light-hearted as a warning. I don't know if it just isn't possible or if it just hasn't come up but 3 days or a week just doesn't say this is a serious matter you need to change your behaviour clear enough for me. I don't know the actual numbers but what I have seen so far goes like that. I assume there is more to it in terms of communication (ie, you did this don't in the future) but I do think the length of the mute should be more significant just to nail home how seriously Toady takes doing such things.

It is. He's muted forever.

Yeah but at this point it is too late for him to modify his behavior. So it only functions as a warning to others not to him. If I  hadn't stumbled across this I would think a three day mute was a slap on the wrist unless whatever communication I received in conjunction with it was incredibly clear. I have lost track of the number of times I have written out a post and not posted it but thought I did and my memory of posts I have made isn't always so great either. If it was still there I would go look for what caused the issue but seeing as Toady would likely have removed it I wouldn't be able to do so. I don't think this was the case with GWG but if I could see it as a slap on the wrist it stands to reason someone else could as well.

The warnings that come along with the bans maybe? And for someone with posts per day above 50, even three days is a lot of posting to miss out on.
And what do you want other than a 'slap on the wrist' anyway? Do you want Toady to actually physically inconvenience people in some way outside of Bay12?

[nenjin]

This is also why threads on bannings generally aren't allowed. It becomes every one airing their personal encounters with the banned, for better or worse.

[Remuthra]

I'm aware of that, yes. So, he contacted somebody on something else, and asked them, presumably IG, to make this?

Or are they one and the same? *Begin Twilight Zone music*

[scrdest]

I wouldn't mind seeing him return after a while, especially if he made an alt and managed to be so different regarding the argumentativeness nobody would notice he's the same person for a while. This is not some fundamental-matter-of-reality thing, it's just about having a modicum of restraint.

Be careful, making alternate accounts as well as ban-dodging is strictly against the forum rules, so you might get into some hot water for supporting it. Just watching out for you bro, since I'm fairly certain that Toady is going to scan thread sooner or later.

I picked neutral, not because I am truly neutral, but it seems most closely aligned with my own feelings towards the situation. GWG pissed me off occasionally. GWG was my boy. Those two statements are not contradictions, as I feel the same way about a few of my friends and acquaintances. I am not glad he is gone, nor am I furiously trying to alleviate his ban. I simply feel sad that someone who, for better or worse, has ingrained himself as a member of the community and Bay12 culture, has been lost.

What I believe above all else is that Toady's judgement on this situation, and any more like it, should be left up to himself (and ThreeToe) for final judgement. Toady may be somewhat tyrannical, but I don't think that's always a bad thing. I myself have nearly gotten banned for violating some forum conduct. I learned, and Toady let me stay. For that I am thankful. His brother and he run this forum for free, supporting it off of voluntary donation, allowing us to do all sorts of batshit nonsense stuff as long as we adhere to the rules put in place. To that, I must agree.

I realize, but my point was, if he can take a year or two off and change enough that nobody would guess the alt is him, I would give him a pass.

He DEFINITELY shouldn't try to use it now to dodge the ban.

Also, re: slap on the wrist - he didn't JUST get the mutes, he was warned, so the message was clear.

[acetech09]

This is also why threads on bannings generally aren't allowed. It becomes every one airing their personal encounters with the banned, for better or worse.

Agreed. Still, I was presented with a petition so I'm posting here until the thread's nuked from orbit.

Voted no for reasons iterated many times before me. Although he was fairly amusing at time, he sometimes took it too far. His several mutes and warnings were more than fair. Also, breaking a permaban sets a pretty scary precedent. Also, the fact that GWG  himself requested a petition to release the permaban says something about his character that I'm not sure I agree with.

[IamanElfCollaborator]

Points have been made, ladies and gents. I believe that now would be the best time to stop the discussion, however. It's pretty much overwhelmingly against his return, more or less, so even without the mod's discretion, the majority have spoken against his return.

[Tiruin]

Voted no for reasons iterated many times before me. Although he was fairly amusing at time, he sometimes took it too far. His several mutes and warnings were more than fair. Also, breaking a permaban sets a pretty scary precedent. Also, the fact that GWG  himself requested a petition to release the permaban says something about his character that I'm not sure I agree with.

Cornering that note, if he wishes to speak in personal defense, I believe its best through Private Messages.

[Toady One]

Yeah, to clarify, regarding messaging/communication, after his 3 day mute and before his 7 day mute, as part of one of his warnings for a minor infraction on April 28th, I included the following:

You came off your mute less than a week ago, and you are saying things like "fuck you all" and calling people jerks.  The circumstances don't even matter -- you know this is inappropriate and you are still doing it.  Warnings don't work, and apparently mutes don't work either.  Now that I'm out of options, I'm stuck with a choice between longer and longer mutes or a permanent ban.  Or you can learn to take things in stride and I won't have to worry about it.

I try to be straightforward about the process as people sink deeper into it, and at some point there just isn't anything more I can do.

In any case, as people have said, threads about bans generally take sour turns over time, but I also thought I'd give people a bit of a chance to process, since GWG was prolific.  I guess I'll shut it down now.