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[Neonivek]

I am confused as to the exact point of including these many guns in the game.

Mostly because there is a point at which you just load the game down with details.

Unless this is one of those "stock games in disguise"

[Dohon]

I know that Belgium isn't considered to be in the top 10 weapon manufacturers, but FN Herstal (the number one weapon producer in Belgium) did have something to do with a few iconic weapons.

Submachine gun:

FN P90: Originally developped by FN Herstal, now popular all across the globe.

Assault rifle:

SCAR-family: Manufactured by the US, but the design was Belgium made, courtesy of FN Herstal.

FN F2000: Not in use by the US (surprise), but it has made an appearance in a few movies as a "high-tech" assault rifle. In use by Belgium, but also Poland, Slovenia, India, Croatia, ...

FN FAL: Also known as a "battle rifle", this rifle is (has been) used by more than 90+ countries, with more than 2 million units produced. One of the most popular and known NATO weapons, although the US decided to use the M16 instead.

Machine gun:

Minimi (also known as the M249): Considered to be an American weapon, it is actually a Belgian designed and produced in the US by a FN subsidiary, FN Manufacturing LLC.

Non-lethal:

FN 303: A riotgun, utlized in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. Used by the US.



A pretty short list in all, I know, but these are the most iconic and well-known weapons. Belgium isn't the biggest weapon manufacturer, but  it seems to be pretty innovative when inventing more death-dealing stuff. I don't know just how detailed the weapon descriptions are going to be, but I would love to see a few "made in Belgium" tossed in there.

For more information, you can also view the (english) webpage of FN Herstal here.

[hemmingjay]

I am confused as to the exact point of including these many guns in the game.

Mostly because there is a point at which you just load the game down with details.

Unless this is one of those "stock games in disguise"

I'm not sure what "Stock games in disguise" are. Why does the Wargame series have so many different units? Why does Eve Online have so many ships? Why do FPS games have so many different weapons? Primarily because variety is valued. Secondly, it plays into the specific mechanics of this game by design. Each of the supplying nations has it's own unique weapons on offer, but they individually fit into the handful of classes that your potential customer nations demand. For example, Argentina has requested 3 crates of sniper rifles. All 10 of the supplying nations has at least 1 sniper rifle model available, assuming your reputation with them is high enough to unlock access to it already. However, in the game there are bonuses to reputation and income for supplying weapons within an alliance and penalties for supplying outside of an alliance. Further, let us assume that Argentina is in a conflict with Brazil. If you wanted Argentina to have better odds, you would want to provide advanced sniper platforms, even if it meant a lower profit margin on that particular deal. Alternatively, if Brazil is a better customer you would want them to win since they will be rebuilding their military faster than the losing nation, so you would either want to provide a lower efficiency sniper package like a WWII relic or ignore the request altogether.

The reason for so many weapons is because at 300 weapons in the game, that is only 30 per supplying nation. Then there are unique weapons that come up rarely (some you may have to play a dozen games before you will see it). Don't worry though, each weapon has a very clear and simple designation that let's non-weapon geeks know what class and how efficient it is comparatively. I was using tech levels before, but now I have changed to a 0-100 efficiency rating for each weapon within it's class(Assault rifle, Sniper, submachine, Heavy, Vehicle, etc). Also, not every nation is equal in the classes they provide. Some nations specialize in submachine guns and shotguns(Italy), while other's specialize in sniper rifles and heavy weapons(United States). This creates a series of strategic decisions the player must make at different stages of the game. You can't have good relations with everyone, typically you can juggle 3-5 nations depending on who you choose, but you will probably focus on just 2 nations for a while. Of course, due to the nature of supply and demand, you may want to avoid pissing off any nation too bad, since you can put yourself out of business by supplying an alliance too well and then not having anymore potential customers. Even that situation has possible solutions, but it's not ideal or easy to manage out of.

[TCM]

I am confused as to the exact point of including these many guns in the game.

Mostly because there is a point at which you just load the game down with details.

Unless this is one of those "stock games in disguise"

Another reason that hemmingjay has brought up before the loads of different guns in the game is also to appeal to a specific niche demographic: gun enthusiasts. While many people interested in this game, including myself, are not gun enthusiasts, marketing the game to them is a legitimate gaming-business move.

[Neonivek]

Ahh thanks TCM that explains it.

Since hemmingjay I was speaking from a purely gameplay point of view.

[TCM]

Ahh thanks TCM that explains it.

Since hemmingjay I was speaking from a purely gameplay point of view.

Yeah, so if you're really into guns, this game is for you.

Guns are cool and all but I'm more interested in the "Dealer" aspect of the game.

[Neonivek]

Then I suggest that the game include a bit of information on the gun. A description of each gun.

[TCM]

Then I suggest that the game include a bit of information on the gun. A description of each gun.

Don't worry though, each weapon has a very clear and simple designation that let's non-weapon geeks know what class and how efficient it is comparatively.

[Neonivek]

No no no... a more then simple description. Side info not important for the game.

So a weapon enthusiast can just geek out and read all the weapon descriptions.

[hemmingjay]

Not to worry. It has the classic small paragraph explaining it's history, odd fact or origin of fame(movie, game, etc). The weapons are in the game because A) Some people love guns and I think I have made the game with the most guns in it ever(more than even Jagged Alliance fan mods I think)  B) There were no real games about the Arms trade or merchants of death  C) The world has a heightened awareness of guns right now, so by including so many in the forefront of my game and it's advertising, I am more likely to catch potential consumers "eye" regardless of their views on guns.

The game has no direct violence, so I have not alienated the anti-gun crowd any more than any other game would. Every decision I have made regarding this project has been intentional and carefully weighed. I'm sure I have made a million rookie mistakes, but I have tried damn hard not to make any stupid ones.

[nenjin]

Not to worry. It has the classic small paragraph explaining it's history, odd fact or origin of fame(movie, game, etc). The weapons are in the game because A) Some people love guns and I think I have made the game with the most guns in it ever(more than even Jagged Alliance fan mods I think)  B) There were no real games about the Arms trade or merchants of death  C) The world has a heightened awareness of guns right now, so by including so many in the forefront of my game and it's advertising, I am more likely to catch potential consumers "eye" regardless of their views on guns.

The game has no direct violence, so I have not alienated the anti-gun crowd any more than any other game would. Every decision I have made regarding this project has been intentional and carefully weighed. I'm sure I have made a million rookie mistakes, but I have tried damn hard not to make any stupid ones.

I don't know if you are free from offending anyone simply because there's no violence. There's an argument to be made that the game glorifies arms deals and weapon proliferation. I don't hold that view, but I'm just saying. People will manage to get outraged about anything. Hopefully in your case it's the kind of outrage that plays into media coverage and eventually sales.

[hemmingjay]

We are working on adding in a lot of the art these next 2-3 weeks and then it's on to fixing the balance and adding in the campaign. The game has a light campaign and a narrative but is still mostly a sandbox trading game/crime sim at heart. The campaign starts with a tutorial that is skippable every other time and after the player beats the campaign they can choose to play with the sandox from then on. The sandbox will have many options for gameplay including different rules, changing the behavior of law enforcement or removing them altogether. Settings to change initial options and win conditions, settings for starting and evolving economies and conflicts, etc. The idea is that you can further change the game in many ways to play it your own way. I want to add as much value as is possible because that's what I value as a gamer. I am also hiring a team to add modding post launch. I think I have the right programmer so far, it shouldn't take too long.

It's that time again for your feedback! Come on down and let me know what I am doing wrong! Seriously, I need your help again. I am about to make a game trailer or two and I have a lot of people feeding me ideas and my own conflicting views as well.

Options are:
1) 90% Gameplay trailer. No boring "presented by...." " produced by" "from the makers of my lunch"....etc, just the title, a bunch of gameplay, a few descriptions of what to expect and then BLAMMO, it's over.

2) A graphic novel style production with still cells that tell the story with some gameplay in between. (This is the same that will be shown in the beginning of the game(first time only, skippable with a single press of ESC).

3) CGI or Stock footage of real life Arms dealers, etc and some gameplay.

Thoughts?

[nenjin]

2) A graphic novel style production with still cells that tell the story with some gameplay in between. (This is the same that will be shown in the beginning of the game(first time only, skippable with a single press of ESC).

For those who aren't used to creating a narrative in their head based on gameplay, this route might go a good ways towards helping them. #1 runs the risk of it looking like a really dry simulation.

Consider what Net Gain would have looked like without the initial cinematic Kickstarter video, and instead had just been some screens going by. Imagine what Hotline Miami would have been without that amazing cinematic trailer of the dude going up the elevator in the rabbit mask.

So I think helping establish the story in your game trailer, with enough game footage so viewers know what they're actually getting, would be best. Plus, when you're doing that kind of trailer, it frees you up to try a lot of things thematically. (See: All of Paradox's trailers for Magicka.)

[vagel7]

I agree. The graphic novel way is a great way to get in some interesting art and narrative. I think it also fits in much better to it as a video game then say the 3rd option would. As Nenjin said, the first option would make a bland trailer and I think that the stock footage/CGI option is the hardest to actually pull off so that it would leave a "wow" effect. With the graphical novel way your options are unlimited on how you want to give the message to the consumer.

If you do however want to take the 3rd route, as in live footage or CGI, then I would suggest something like Paradox did with their Crusader Kings II trailers. Those were original, funny and most definitely stood out as a whole different way of making a trailer for a game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cle3Vxjl5Vc

[hemmingjay]

Fantastic feedback guys! If I wasn't so smart cheap broke busy, I would put you on the payroll.