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Author Topic: Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?  (Read 2397 times)

Dampe

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Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?
« on: June 09, 2014, 11:51:05 am »

I've started planning a fortress that I'm hoping will not fail within the first year (which, for me, would be an accomplishment in itself) and I'm wondering if I should replace another dwarf's skill with hunter, or even combine it with hunter?
The skillsets for the dwarves
One miner
One woodcutter
Two career military dwarves (Neither of these will be marksdwarves)
One mason/engraver/stonecrafter
One carpenter/building designer/woodcrafter/woodburner
One metalsmith/cook

Do I have room for a hunter, and if so, which of the dwarves should I get rid of, other than the two military dwarves?
(They are, at this time, inexpendable, although the same cannot be said for any of the other bastards.)
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Regards,
Dampe

deepfreeze78

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Re: Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2014, 12:15:56 pm »

Depends. What biome/savagery/evilness are you embarking in?
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greycat

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Re: Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2014, 12:17:46 pm »

Everyone's play style is different, and everyone will disagree about what to bring on embark.  You need to find what works for you.

Personally, I don't use Hunters at all.  I did for a while when I was first starting out, and it's not a bad thing to do, but it's too random and dangerous for my taste.  Hunters go anywhere that's opened -- into the caverns, over the frozen river, right into the ambushes, etc.  And they sleep there, for Armok's sake.  Half elven, the lot of 'em, I swear.
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Witty

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Re: Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2014, 12:19:42 pm »

Building designing, engraving and wood burning are pretty useless skills to put embark points in, and cooking is more of a mid-game thing once you're rolling in a variety of foodstuffs, so I'd drop those.

Really, a hunter is not at all necessary for a starting fort. What is necessary however, is a grower. Which is absent from your selected group.

My suggestion: Double your woodcutter as a farmer/grower and drop the skills I mentioned above. You may want to consider making your metalsmith an armor/weapon smith, since that will be more useful for your military dwarves once they need good gear. Don't forgot to bring enough plump helmet spawn and make a farm as soon as you can. Once the food starts coming, you're pretty much set.
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sal880612m

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Re: Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2014, 12:30:01 pm »

If you take a hunter I believe you also need to take a crossbow, quiver and bolts. I would be inclined to suggest you take a quiver or a cheep butcher-able animal that provides leather and make the crossbow and bolts at the site. Be sure to take materials if you don't have access to the ones you want to use.

ninja'd, but everyone else has some really good points. Witty makes an especially good point about taking growers, though in truth you can set that skill post embark and do okay though you may need to set more dwarves as growers if you don't put any points into it. Also use potash on your farms if you can.
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Arx

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Re: Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2014, 12:34:14 pm »

If you take a hunter I believe you also need to take a crossbow, quiver and bolts.

I'm preeetty sure hunters bring their own kit, which is extremely convenient. As far as whether or not to take a hunter with goes, I've almost never done it. The number of animals entering your site can be extremely varied, and it doesn't always seem very productive to me.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 12:52:08 pm by Arx »
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sal880612m

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Re: Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2014, 12:38:11 pm »

I am under the impression that that is the case for hunters immigrating to your fort and that that used to be the case if ambusher was the highest skill but that it no longer worked that way.
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deepfreeze78

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Re: Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2014, 12:48:07 pm »

If you take a hunter I believe you also need to take a crossbow, quiver and bolts.

I'm preeetty sure hunters bring their own kit, which is extremely convenient. As far as whether or not to take a hunter with goes, I've almost never done it. The number of animals entering your site can be extremely varied, and it doesn't always seem very productive to me.

I am under the impression that that is the case for hunters immigrating to your fort and that that used to be the case if ambusher was the highest skill but that it no longer worked that way.

Hunters only bring stuff when migrating, I know this for a fact as I take at least 1 hunter every time, but always forget to pack a quiver/ammo/crossbow, so I have no food for a while.
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Arx

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Re: Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2014, 12:51:42 pm »

I guess my info was outdated. Sorry 'bout that, then.
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deepfreeze78

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Re: Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2014, 12:53:22 pm »

Also, I've never tried taking one at embark, but I've found that fisherdwarves are EXTREMELY useful when they migrate to my fort.
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Quietust

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Re: Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2014, 02:00:09 pm »

I guess my info was outdated. Sorry 'bout that, then.
Indeed it is - up through version 0.31.25, a dwarf with the "Hunter" profession would automatically get a set of equipment during embark (though in 0.31.xx those items would be left on the ground instead of being pre-equipped).

[edit] Not-so-ninja-edited to fix my incorrect conclusion about previous versions.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 02:23:51 pm by Quietust »
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sal880612m

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Re: Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2014, 02:08:31 pm »

... If I didn't spend so much time on the forums I would probably have had the same info. I think that it is implied or stated somewhere on the wiki but I don't remember where. Maybe one of the quick-start or embark pages? Maybe just be a matter of not reading what was said carefully enough though.
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slothen

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Re: Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2014, 02:41:48 pm »

I  wouldn't bother unless you're expecting to have trouble with other more reliable food sources.  I find that I get plenty of hunters as migrants, and they come with their own equipment.  I consider embarking with hunters to be a pretty big waste.  Maybe a decent idea if you want to prioritize getting early leather and bone, or if you're really worried about getting attacked right at the beginning.
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Urist McWangchuck

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Re: Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2014, 03:07:07 pm »

Do I have room for a hunter, and if so, which of the dwarves should I get rid of, other than the two military dwarves?
(They are, at this time, inexpendable, although the same cannot be said for any of the other bastards.)

As has been pointed out, all sorts of approaches to embarking are viable, so I'll suggest that you do it and report back how awesome or FUN it turned out.  Having an embark hunter means a lot of Marksdwarf training before the first ambush appears. Also, pincushioned thieves. That's gotta be worth something.  I'm also going to suggest bringing a dedicated bonecarver to supply bolts through year 1.  Don't forget a butcher.

Bonus points, use a wood crossbow and make him your Sheriff for ineffectual beatings.

Even when hunting becomes less effective due to your fortress being surrounded by sieges or whatnot, you still have one highly trained Marksdwarf early in your fort's life cycle.

One other thing to keep in mind, that as awesome as free range meat is, you will still need agriculture of some sort. Meat isn't brewable and your fortress needs booze to survive.
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Melting Sky

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Re: Is it worth bringing a hunter along on embark?
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2014, 03:09:38 pm »

Hunters are decent but watch out for the biome you take them into. In savage biomes they can bite off more than they can chew if they find something like giant badgers etc. They can serve as an early food, leather and bone source and a self training ranged unit that can be turned into the head of your first crossbow squad later in the game. Consider bringing 3 dogs with you and train the extra one as the hunters companion. A dog can make a big difference in the hunters early survivability if he gets into a fight with something ugly.  Dogs are cheap, breed fast and can serve as look outs, disposable military units and a food source in a pinch.

You can do without a hunter if you like, particularly with other military dwarves in your embark. If you do hunt you will need to set up a butcher's shop.
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