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[Quietust]

*sigh* Here we go again...

The existence of Adamantine is not a spoiler anymore (it stopped being one back in late 2007 when it was no longer hidden from the user interface before you discovered it, and even moreso in April 2010 when you were all but guaranteed to find it upon discovering the lower caverns or magma sea), so there is no need to refer to it by idiotic euphemisms such as "candy".

Now, the inherent danger behind acquiring Adamantine is definitely still a spoiler, but we've always had a special term for that: Hidden Fun Stuff.

[Melting Sky]

I do remember playing Fortress Defense against a particular kind of large enemy (titans or something?) with iron helms, a candy spear could NOT pierce the large iron helm, though the spearlord tried for pages (eventually his mate the hammerlord came and gave the titan a bonk on the head which did the trick). So apparently candy is not some kind of silver bullet at least for spears, perhaps the benefit applies exclusively to slicing attacks, or perhaps spears are simply awful against armour.

This is actually very interesting because spears are one of the best edged weapons for piercing armor. Even an iron spear will go through iron armor. I'm very surprised it didn't go strait through the helmet. It must have been extremely thick due to the size of the creature wearing it.

[Hetairos]

I do remember playing Fortress Defense against a particular kind of large enemy (titans or something?) with iron helms, a candy spear could NOT pierce the large iron helm, though the spearlord tried for pages (eventually his mate the hammerlord came and gave the titan a bonk on the head which did the trick). So apparently candy is not some kind of silver bullet at least for spears, perhaps the benefit applies exclusively to slicing attacks, or perhaps spears are simply awful against armour.

This is actually very interesting because spears are one of the best edged weapons for piercing armor. Even an iron spear will go through iron armor. I'm very surprised it didn't go strait through the helmet. It must have been extremely thick due to the size of the creature wearing it.

There is a bug regarding the thickness of clothing of extremely large creatures. It's impenetrable to pretty much everything, including adamantine.

[deepfreeze78]

I do remember playing Fortress Defense against a particular kind of large enemy (titans or something?) with iron helms, a candy spear could NOT pierce the large iron helm, though the spearlord tried for pages (eventually his mate the hammerlord came and gave the titan a bonk on the head which did the trick). So apparently candy is not some kind of silver bullet at least for spears, perhaps the benefit applies exclusively to slicing attacks, or perhaps spears are simply awful against armour.

This is actually very interesting because spears are one of the best edged weapons for piercing armor. Even an iron spear will go through iron armor. I'm very surprised it didn't go strait through the helmet. It must have been extremely thick due to the size of the creature wearing it.

There is a bug regarding the thickness of clothing of extremely large creatures. It's impenetrable to pretty much everything, including adamantine.

Which is why clowns with armor are so impossible to kill.

[Agent_Irons]

I do remember playing Fortress Defense against a particular kind of large enemy (titans or something?) with iron helms, a candy spear could NOT pierce the large iron helm, though the spearlord tried for pages (eventually his mate the hammerlord came and gave the titan a bonk on the head which did the trick). So apparently candy is not some kind of silver bullet at least for spears, perhaps the benefit applies exclusively to slicing attacks, or perhaps spears are simply awful against armour.

This is actually very interesting because spears are one of the best edged weapons for piercing armor. Even an iron spear will go through iron armor. I'm very surprised it didn't go strait through the helmet. It must have been extremely thick due to the size of the creature wearing it.

There is a bug regarding the thickness of clothing of extremely large creatures. It's impenetrable to pretty much everything, including adamantine.

This makes a great deal of sense, actually. If the helmet is like three feet thick and your sword is two feet long, you're going to have a bad time.

[FallenAngel]

Now, if you mod in an absurdly large weapon (or just one with excessive cutting power), cutting through three-foot-thick helmets will be only difficult, not impossible.

[PrimusRibbus]

*sigh* Here we go again...

The existence of Adamantine is not a spoiler anymore (it stopped being one back in late 2007 when it was no longer hidden from the user interface before you discovered it, and even moreso in April 2010 when you were all but guaranteed to find it upon discovering the lower caverns or magma sea), so there is no need to refer to it by idiotic euphemisms such as "candy".

Now, the inherent danger behind acquiring Adamantine is definitely still a spoiler, but we've always had a special term for that: Hidden Fun Stuff.

Agreed completely. Using euphemisms for things like Adamantine only makes it harder for newer players to find info about it in the wiki when they want to.

Frankly, at this point I think it's been years since we've needed to use euphemisms for Hell either. Adamantine and Hell aren't spoilers anymore, they're damn near part of the feature list when anyone talks about DF.

^{_{/ Apologies for going off-topic}}

[sal880612m]

While I agree about Adamantine, I do think the HFS should still be respected as not everyone know it can occur and there is that moment when it first happens of sheer WTF happened that you won't get if you are spoiled on it.

Also adamantine is a pain to spell and remember. No one complains about people saying iron ore instead of hematite, limonite or magnetite. The only difference I can see is adamantine doesn't seem to have a common name. Just another addition to the DF jargon.

[HooliganintheFort]

Welp, time to get rid of all my masterwork adamantine short swords....

Adamantine armor is still superior right?

[Melting Sky]

Welp, time to get rid of all my masterwork adamantine short swords....

Adamantine armor is still superior right?

I wouldn't say adamantine short swords are worse than steel overall but rather that in some situations the steel does a better due to having better blunt attacks. Adamantine edged attacks are still superior and short swords made of it will massively outperform steel when used against creatures made of stuff harder than steel is. The main reason I posted this topic and did some tests was I have a bunch of grizzled old warriors who have named their steel weapons and I was wondering if it was really worth taking their beloved gear away from them to replace it with new adamantine stuff.

I think there are VERY few situations where you can find steel armor will be superior to adamantine. Maybe in the case of a strong, expert armor user going up against elven bowman. Strength and armor skill decrease the encumbrance penalty for the heavier steel gear and elves shoot wooden arrows which due to deflection rules go through candy slightly better than they do steal. Only in the case of very light projectiles will steel stop them better. As far as I know, in every other situation candy protects best plus you can layer it without encumbrance issues.

[MDFification]

*sigh* Here we go again...

The existence of Adamantine is not a spoiler anymore (it stopped being one back in late 2007 when it was no longer hidden from the user interface before you discovered it, and even moreso in April 2010 when you were all but guaranteed to find it upon discovering the lower caverns or magma sea), so there is no need to refer to it by idiotic euphemisms such as "candy".

Now, the inherent danger behind acquiring Adamantine is definitely still a spoiler, but we've always had a special term for that: Hidden Fun Stuff.

You're the guy who points out the !!SCIENCE!! is inaccurate as science isn't on fire, aren't you.

[HooliganintheFort]

Huh, so make a steel rookie squad then get them adamantine gear later on when they get better with armour using and stuff, got it.

[hjd_uk]

Also: Shields get used as bashing weapons a lot and AFAIK shield-material makes no difference to thair actual defensive capability - unless weight makes the dorf slower to block ?.

So Addy shields are also probably worse than steel as they are so light, being hit by one (by an irate Dwarf)  is like being hit with a piece of styro-foam.

[Hetairos]

Shields also take 4 wafers to make, and since the material doesn't matter for blocking they're better used elsewhere.

[Lich180]

Candy armor testing has shown (wish I had the link or time to find it, maybe later) that some pieces of armor are better as steel rather than candy, and vice versa due to the way damage is modeled. Bruising and chipping bones is more common with candy armor, which may or may not be worse than outright losing a limb. Chipped bones may make a dwarf pass out from pain, and end up headshot, while a missing limb will keep on fighting.

Really wish I could find that thread...