Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

All the time.

2 (13.3%)

Sometimes.

9 (60%)

Only when there's a new release.

2 (13.3%)

Never. ((get out))

2 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 13

[Kansa]

So basically this argument is pointless, Akroma did not erase any of the old lore and just added to it. Projeck still has control over the Void entity himself and stuff like that and Ashley's back-story still makes sense. It seems like this entire thing was just caused by the two sides misunderstanding what the other had to say, I'm sorry I didn't ask that question earlier.

[Empiricist]

Actually wait a minute... Where did this idea come from that Akroma's lore was completly wiping out the old lore anyway. I don't get that impression from any of her posts, it sounds like she made it to co-exist with the new lore and everyone is just assuming that it completely took over because that's all the contact we have had with the void in this version. Please don't tell me this entire argument has been for nothing and it just spawned from people assuming things...

Didn't we already establish previously (I think as far back as v2 actually, or at least early in this thread at the very least) that Akroma's stuff is in the outskirts and that the rest of the void stuff was as is, it's just that the other denizens didn't give a fuck and thus were impertinent? Everything else would probably be intact, just apathetic.

She asked him and he said yes? I don't doubt that, but as I said, Things were kept secret from even him. Also, Rag was hardly on when the Sultanes were fully introduced and from what I looked up in the V2 thread. Nothing was ever agreed to. Oh he agreed to it in PM? That will be hard to prove besides having him come on here and post his opinions. But we haven't seen him since oh... the beginning of v3.

You dislike Akroma, you have some sort of a vendetta against her, we get it. But you can't just start basing your accusations on Devil's Proof. Yes, short of somehow dragging Toady into this, she has no real way of proving herself innocent but you have no way of proving her guilty with this method.

Kyle complained about my lore being overly complicated, but nobody ever seems bothered that around every corner, there is an entirely different cosmos sitting around, which in some cases doesn't even seem to serve a purpose. Why did we need to go to the shadow realm to fight a shadow dragon thing? The world is big and magic all about, Umbalik could have come from anywhere, same for Tobias, but nope, new dimensions for everyone.

Presumably, because of one of three reasons:

• It's easier. For some one who's rather busy and one of the less experienced GM's, it would probably be easier to start from scratch than to use something that affects and is affected by other people. No need to negotiate anything, integrate much lore and it limits the impact on the world as well.
• Not all that is eldritch works well with void. Not everything really fits the theme of the void, so not everything can originate from there. I mean, the void isn't just for lovecraftian horrors, it's more specific than that, it's for things that are the antithesis of the "normal" universe which of course limits what can be there. Add that gate which prevents most travel and it limits the range further to such entities capable of circumventing it. Finally, it adds a further limit in that most people can't actually survive there, so (judging by the thread title of the IC thread) if Projeck wanted to have people go to some sort of strange realm, it couldn't be void otherwise almost everyone would just die unless they all hugged one of the people able to survive, but that would make combat rather difficult.
• Habit and contextual gaming culture. Projeck was one of the first players of v2, it's early days being marked by rapid creation of lore and dimensions, a matter than indeed eventually led to that approval system. One of those things added, was Void (well, v1 had something called that as well, but it was renamed), so I would imagine that a player of that era wouldn't really view void as anything special or something to place all future entities into, it was just something to power a character. So it wouldn't exactly be a transgression to continue doing that - making dimensions related to a character, albeit just smaller ones as the larger chunks of the cosmology were claimed.

[Kansa]

Didn't we already establish that Akroma's stuff is in the outskirts and that the rest of the void stuff was as is, it's just that the other denizens didn't give a fuck and thus were impertinent? Everything else would probably be intact, just apathetic.

I have no idea... I did see some people talk about it like that but that was in reference for when it was first approved, everyone seemed ok with that and were just saying later that it was Akroma who took over all of the void lore. At least that's what I thought this argument was about as the original complaint from Projeck was that he had no control over his portion of the void anymore.

[Sanure]

this is laughable at best.

@Kansa, You say that it was the Lore holder's fault for approving Akroma's Lore. yet they didn't approve it. they even said in OOC that they didn't. I'm not blaming Akroma for approving her lore. I am, however, blaming her for forcing her lore into the game. But this entire argument is moot because the blame game is a stupid moot point.

@Akroma, wow. just wow. So, let me get this straight...

You say that a player has no control over the backstory of their character, well, I should say, You say that a player should not complain about their entire lore being completely tossed out for a more generalized, less emotion driven potential plot that, excuse my french, will fuck all the people up and destroy all fucking sense of limits set in stone by the GM and the Co-GMs. No, I completely understand.

I didn't try? Bullshit. If you look back at the Amazeroth fight and the OOC from that point in time. I didn't complain about it. I said that that was stepping on my toes, by I would allow it, because I wanted to see where it went. But no. That point is moot because further down the line you ended up fully stepping on my foot to further cement Sen being an entity created of Amazeroth. So yeah. When it involves someone else's character it deserves full disclosure about what is entailed. There is no "right" to not be disclosured. That person is not your character. IF you plan on changing something about that character to better fit in with your lore, You not only ask them if it is okay, but you are required to give them all info concerning the changes you want to make. You're not a goddamned queen, You have no privelege over changing anyone's character without their express permission.

And more over, I'm not suggesting we take up space in the OOC for Lore. We could use a bloody google.doc to contain it all.

another thing. I said that Sen was super ancient. I didn't say she has seen everything or has figured out the world. I'm going to politely ask that you do not start putting words in my mouth like you currently are.

I am not asking you to retcon the entire damn thing. I am, however, asking you to move it to it's own entity, or work with project to make it work with void. Oh wait. You've already ran Projeck off so maybe that isn't possible now.

Oh, I'm not complaining about you putting eldritch horrors where they are meant to be. The problem is however... The "eldritch Horrors" in void are completey void creatures that exist only to destroy. Your "eldritch horrors" are creation spawned void entities that seek the complete destruction of existence, though beleive it or not, is completely impossible due to Lore. specifically Elf and Rag's lore.

So yeah. I could be bitter. I could be just making an ass out of myself. though if we really want someone making an ass out of themselves:

But for gods sake shut up about it. You didn't have fun, okay cool, that happens, but if that still bothers you after several months, you should consider somehow unbothering yourself

you want me to "unbother myself" over you trying to forcefully change my characters background? Shit, I already got over that shit by pushing my true sen lore to Projeck, Smurf, and PN. So yeah, Moot insult.

@Kansa, I won't say your wrong, but your not quite right either. Rag isn't the one who is the Lore holder for Void. Project is. And Project has already stated he did not approve Akroma's add ons to the Void lore. But I guess this argument is moot in a way seeing as how Akroma ran off another of our Lore holders. Again.

Actually, screw it. I wanna see normality on all Lore so I'm posting this:
http://strawpoll.me/3478615

Yes. I am starting a vote to make lore public Domain. I'd rather have Lore be spoiled in the OOC rather than have a big clusterfuck pop up again because Lore is constantly being broken. If someone can't trust the other players to not meta in OOC knowledge, then this is probably not a game they should be playing.

[Kansa]

They did approve it, Elf said he approved it. He approved it being an addition to the lore, the part in doubt was whether he allowed the complete rewrite. You have no proof that Rag didn't approve it and he was the leader of the void lore at the time it was introduced. It does not contradict anything due to it just being additions instead of being erasures.

[Empiricist]

Didn't we already establish that Akroma's stuff is in the outskirts and that the rest of the void stuff was as is, it's just that the other denizens didn't give a fuck and thus were impertinent? Everything else would probably be intact, just apathetic.

I have no idea... I did see some people talk about it like that but that was in reference for when it was first approved, everyone seemed ok with that and were just saying later that it was Akroma took over all of the void lore. At least that's what I thought this argument was about as the original complaint from Projeck was that he had no control over his portion of the void anymore.

Yeah, I remember complaining earlier on (though for different reasons) and then being fine with it after Akroma explained that Sultanes only controlled bits in the outskirts. I think Projeck regaining control was a side-effect, Sanure seems to have a bit of a vendetta for having his character hijacked, which though I sympathize with, he's going a bit too far in trying to force this matter seeing as it's kinda hard to prove seeing as it requires someone who is perpetually AFK to testify.

Your "eldritch horrors" are creation spawned void entities that seek the complete destruction of existence, though beleive it or not, is completely impossible due to Lore. specifically Elf and Rag's lore.

Uh... aren't the void-aligned player characters "creation spawned void entities"?

[Sanure]

@Emp: My "vendetta"? I'm afraid your mistaken. Just because I'm targeting specifically Akroma for all Lore inconsistencies does mean I'm only laying Blame on her. I blame everyone who has major lore for not defending it from being changed. I blame eveyone who thought it was a good idea to just accept posted lore as law when we all know that previous lore prevents it. It's just easier using Akroma as the focal point since she has actively stepped on peoples toes lore wise.

My problem does not lie with Akroma. It lies with the system used to keep lore in check. It happened in v2 and it's happening again here. The Lore isn't being managed. that's why I want it public Domain. I want a way to go back, Look at the Lore, then say whether or not submitted lore breaks the current lore. That's all I want.

Lore and fluff are important to me. The stories that it tells is just amazing. But when Inconsistences start to appear, and then all current lore becomes a clusterfuck of stupid shenanigans that break stuff that has been around before any of us new players... Yeah, I get furious. I get pretty damned mad.

So yeah, I'll apologize here if any of you thought I was specifically targeting Akroma for my rage and hatred. I'm not. Im mad at everyone for not keeping up with Lore better. I'm furious that shit has just been accepted into lore without any look back on previous lore. So again: Sorry.

@ Emp's newest post: Yes. and by a lore point of view, are eldricht abominations.

[Empiricist]

So, how do Akroma's ones violate the lore and PC ones do not?

[Akroma]

frankly, I dont care about Rag and Elfs lore. They are not part of the game anymore.

I will not even respond to the rest, you are doing enough argueing for both of us right now. The sultanes have been a part of the game for more than a year now. They will stay part of the game. The discussion can continue when Projec is back, well rested from vacation, but I will not argue with you, argueing projecs point.


So calm down. A few posts ago you said:

But no, I am all for Sen having absorbed the essence of a spawn of Amazeroth as that can fit into her lore. One thing I will say though is that when Sen does fuse with the entity, she has none of their memories. It is not something her ability can absorb, as it fully suppresses the soul's personality and eventually deletes them.

And we should leave it at that. Amazeroth has been annihilated, and nothing related to him could still influence the game, unless someone manages to get into his library, which again is unrelated to Sen, especialy since she no longer absorbs books.

In fact, what difference did it make back when the plot started? All it did was give Amazeroth a motive to attack the group, and thus die and leave the other sultanes stranded, as he had not fully enclosed the actual details of the information they needed to just wipe the world away immediatly, thus entering the stage for the plot. And that's it. Ultimately for Sen, this is all you want it to be. It could be a character building dilemma and self-actualisation, or it could be a meaningless birth mark that makes no difference unless you decide to actually write out EVERY demon she is made out of and find a way to make each and every one relevant to the game.




Also what Kansa said. At that time, Projec was not in controle of the void lore, Rag was. Lore keepers was something that started I think a bit earlier than the vatican plot, by that time my lore was already approved. ((damnit and here I said I would not argue. oh well, main point remains "calm down, it does not make any difference, Sen is not butchered, or even influenced in by a meaningfully large amount"))

[Sanure]

frankly, I dont care about Rag and Elfs lore. They are not part of the game anymore.

I'mma quote this for reason.

They may not be part of the game anymore, but their lore is still a very, very big part of the game.

If you think I need calming down, then you will probably learn why I hate arguments via lines of text. I'm laughing at this point. I'm in a jovial fucking mood. I have never been this entertained in my drab boring life. I mentioned many times that I was amused at all of this. Oh, I am furious, as stated though I was furious at how the lore has been handled.



Spoiler, Each demon has a backstory that will be explored if the game starts getting slow. It will also explain how Sen gained some of her abilities and perks :3

And yes, Her additional perks and Abilities are level locked. She will regain them when she hits the level marker for each of them.

[Akroma]

old lore: the void is empty and affects nothing

new lore: the void is not empty, and that affects things.

Which of the following offers more gameplay value? Frankly with me being part of the game, and Rag not being part of the game, Rags lore should be changed, not mine.

[Sanure]

No. No. I know better. I will not be pulling the pin on this grenade...

[kj1225]

Also, Lucifer has souls for a reason demons don't. After all, he was the bringer of light.

[Sanure]

So would you say that Lucifer is divinity?

[Empiricist]

old lore: the void is empty and affects nothing

new lore: the void is not empty, and that affects things.

Which of the following offers more gameplay value? Frankly with me being part of the game, and Rag not being part of the game, Rags lore should be changed, not mine.

Ragnarok's lore was that it was full of eldritch monstrosities in a continuous, stable superposition between all the possibilities. I mean, yeah, I certainly didn't like it, but it certainly was far from empty and did affect things. Mcclay even ran a plot where it affected things.

The issue with it is that it suddenly went from "can cause issues at any time or place which was quite frankly just lazy story-telling wise" to "can't do shit because someone made a gate" instead of some sort of more moderate option.