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How often do you play Dwarf Fortress?

All the time.
- 2 (13.3%)
Sometimes.
- 9 (60%)
Only when there's a new release.
- 2 (13.3%)
Never. ((get out))
- 2 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 13


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Author Topic: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: Stealing combat systems from an eroge  (Read 525076 times)

Sanure

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #7545 on: December 03, 2014, 02:06:20 pm »

I totally forgot her stating that so that one is on me.

-Snip-

Also, Wasn't Icarus' Orihalcum blade expertly made? I mean she attempted like three times on perfecting it and, being a robot, she should have made high quality +7 weapon or masterwork level blade not a good quality one.

@USEC, Yes I am comparing Apples to oranges. Each person has a role, but the highest damage dealers I listed (minus ashley) are variable stats. Icarus boosting, and Hilda re-allocating.

As I said, the race thing was just to bring up discussion first :P I usually don't bring things like that up otherwise. I mean, I barely made any contributions to the system design other than like a single thing.

Actually, let me just ask Akroma instead of discussing it while she is offline. Modifying posts to reflect.
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Quote from: Discord
Suika, Drinker of Sake - Today at 9:11 PM
"...I really don't know why Cu chulainn made that last promise because he is physically incapable of keeping it in his pants, it is like his junk is some kind of unruly seamonster or moray eel telescoping out of its holster and harpooning ladies left and right"
Johnny Jokotaru sent Kars down under

Akroma

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #7546 on: December 03, 2014, 02:37:22 pm »


Anyway on topic, the problem is while we have the look at 5 in all stats being average, we don't actually have any look at how stats actually scale. How far above average is 8 points? How much 15? How much strength is needed to lift a car? Can someone with 10 speed wallrun and jump from wall to wall in the blink of an eye? At what point is it fair to say that the bullet was not dodged, but caught?

We know that the PCs are stronger than the average person, to the point where they can probably fight dragons (an average dragon I guess), and that can be caused either by loads and loads of training, Linda being the best example, or by maybe pure talent (like Dalia, though it seems super odd), or simply by design (super robot body ho) or many other reasons.

But how the PCs actually stand in the power-continuum of the world, is hard to assess. Point is, in numbers, something like 10, the PCs can with teamwork (being used very loosely here), pummel down entities with much larger statpools. The problem is with magic being so common, It should not be so hard to gather something like 10 reasonably experienced mages - which is a problem, because that kinda establishes that the PCs are just one of many many many that can just teamrush bosses, very much reducing the actual threat factor of the bosses. However if you put the bosses at stats where they are so super far above the Pcs that 10 of them together cant deal with them, well, that means 10 of us together cant deal with them. That makes the Pcs as a whole super useless and unimportant.

As such, I would like to settle 100 in stats as *extraordinarily high*, certainly heroes of legend tier for mortals, and at least somewhat decent even in the big leagues. Else plots like the vatican being held hostage by the king of hell, creation being destroyed by eldritch horrors, or an army of pro-magic terrorists that actually have the resources to openly fight the whole world are entirely out of Pc reach


as for the Orichalcum blade, well, I simply didn't want to just hand myself a +7 weapon so early in the game, when everyone else was still on low level weaponry. Since then however, weapon damage output and loot level have increased, and the HYDRA body will reflect that. Why else would Icarus refuse all the awesome loot that is being dropped?


Also, I kinda dislike the old system where you just roll and suddenly have masterwork stuff on your hands. Icarus is a robot, and Icarus rolled well, but Icarus is neither a smith, nor an engineer. On her own, even if she does everything to the peak of her ability, she simply can not create masterwork swords just because she saved all sword smithing tutorials avaiable on the internet.


This is why she is letting the Hydra body be built by a whole bunch of experts with decades of experience, merely influencing the design to her liking
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Find comfort in that most people of intelligence jeer at the inmost mysteries, if superior minds were ever placed in fullest contact with the secrets preserved by
 ancient and lowly cults, the resultant abnormalities would soon not only wreck the world, but threathen the very ingerity of the cosmos

Sanure

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #7547 on: December 03, 2014, 02:52:32 pm »

Wow you really don't hold back do you Akroma XD

Unfortunatly, I won't agree to that argument at all, So, yeah not happening.

I agree that handing oneself a masterwork weapon doesn't seem fair, but when a being with an advantage goes to make a weapon, they by all means they should have the advantage. Icarus has access to the Internet. She can get precise instructions for heating, hammering, tempering, and shaping a blade to be awesomely awesome. I mean, She had access to all of the equipment to make a masterwork blade due to Kyle's lab which is practically a machine shop and inventors room rolled into one. Just saying is all.

Akroma gets it with the character thing. We are playing as heroe's (some as villains, some as uncaring). We don't seem like it at all. we aren't special, we are a dime a dozen. As it stands the system is balanced for Hero versus villain, and not Big Bad or Bigger bad.

The level system needs to be tempered and should represent a curve and not a diagonal line ( which it currently is.)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 02:54:08 pm by Sanure »
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Quote from: Discord
Suika, Drinker of Sake - Today at 9:11 PM
"...I really don't know why Cu chulainn made that last promise because he is physically incapable of keeping it in his pants, it is like his junk is some kind of unruly seamonster or moray eel telescoping out of its holster and harpooning ladies left and right"
Johnny Jokotaru sent Kars down under

Akroma

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #7548 on: December 03, 2014, 02:56:02 pm »

4 stats, +1 per level?

that would means Icarus stat totaly right now would not be 120 (100+4*5), but a whooping 135 (100+5+6+7+8+9). It seem steep enough to me, any exponentials would just go out of hand
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Find comfort in that most people of intelligence jeer at the inmost mysteries, if superior minds were ever placed in fullest contact with the secrets preserved by
 ancient and lowly cults, the resultant abnormalities would soon not only wreck the world, but threathen the very ingerity of the cosmos

Sanure

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #7549 on: December 03, 2014, 03:02:33 pm »

Thats too... narrow of a curve.

it should probably be every five levels increase the Stat points gained by say 1-2

That would have Icarus be 120 currently, Then in another 5 levels be (100+4*5+5*5) for a total of 145. that means a net gain of 5 stat points at level 10 and 10 stat points at level 15 and so on and so on.
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Quote from: Discord
Suika, Drinker of Sake - Today at 9:11 PM
"...I really don't know why Cu chulainn made that last promise because he is physically incapable of keeping it in his pants, it is like his junk is some kind of unruly seamonster or moray eel telescoping out of its holster and harpooning ladies left and right"
Johnny Jokotaru sent Kars down under

Akroma

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #7550 on: December 03, 2014, 03:05:51 pm »

I dont think that is narrow enough though. It would mean that enemies that are impossible to beat right now are still mostly impossible to beat 5 levels (and probably 7-8 plots) later. Levels are progressing very slowly, and if the stat gain is so slow, enemy strength always has to be in reach, because 8 plots later, man, that is long
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Find comfort in that most people of intelligence jeer at the inmost mysteries, if superior minds were ever placed in fullest contact with the secrets preserved by
 ancient and lowly cults, the resultant abnormalities would soon not only wreck the world, but threathen the very ingerity of the cosmos

USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #7551 on: December 03, 2014, 03:06:36 pm »

by maybe pure talent (like Dalia, though it seems super odd)

Given how many jokes I've made about Dalia's stats, I'm pretty sure that her power is due more to a plot hole than anything else. But if I did change her stats to be more reasonable for a random girl she'd be even more lopsided than before, since I'd have to dump everything into magic/mana/resistance with only a few extra points into the physical skills. Which means that she'd be dead because she wouldn't have enough HP to survive the previous fight.
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Sanure

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #7552 on: December 03, 2014, 03:10:47 pm »

Given how many jokes I've made about Dalia's stats, I'm pretty sure that her power is due more to a plot hole than anything else. But if I did change her stats to be more reasonable for a random girl she'd be even more lopsided than before, since I'd have to dump everything into magic/mana/resistance with only a few extra points into the physical skills. Which means that she'd be dead because she wouldn't have enough HP to survive the previous fight.

Pfft, Dalia just needs some Power armor and a couple of levels in Badassery and she would be best character~
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Quote from: Discord
Suika, Drinker of Sake - Today at 9:11 PM
"...I really don't know why Cu chulainn made that last promise because he is physically incapable of keeping it in his pants, it is like his junk is some kind of unruly seamonster or moray eel telescoping out of its holster and harpooning ladies left and right"
Johnny Jokotaru sent Kars down under

USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #7553 on: December 03, 2014, 03:11:32 pm »

So she'd need to be Kyle then? :P
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Akroma

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #7554 on: December 03, 2014, 03:12:28 pm »

well, then Dalia is the chosen one, just whatever god chose her at birth kinda forgot about that and later picked someone else.
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Find comfort in that most people of intelligence jeer at the inmost mysteries, if superior minds were ever placed in fullest contact with the secrets preserved by
 ancient and lowly cults, the resultant abnormalities would soon not only wreck the world, but threathen the very ingerity of the cosmos

Sanure

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #7555 on: December 03, 2014, 03:13:55 pm »

Nah, Dalia would be like opposite of Kyle, Where Kyle is blessed with fertility, Dalia is cursed with awesomeness :D

Joking aside, I want to see Dalia plot happen :3
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Quote from: Discord
Suika, Drinker of Sake - Today at 9:11 PM
"...I really don't know why Cu chulainn made that last promise because he is physically incapable of keeping it in his pants, it is like his junk is some kind of unruly seamonster or moray eel telescoping out of its holster and harpooning ladies left and right"
Johnny Jokotaru sent Kars down under

USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #7556 on: December 03, 2014, 03:22:05 pm »

That would involve Dalia actually having something worthy of basing a plot around. Which is something that I'm having trouble thinking up. So... No Dalia plot, sorry.
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Sanure

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #7557 on: December 03, 2014, 03:32:50 pm »

Oh, Something I thought of (and this is just an idea):

Have perks tied in with the stats themselves. We remove the [Perk per 5 levels] currently in the system and replace it with a [Perk gained at attribute milestone]. This encourages the players to not min-max their stat points into a single stat to ensure they get that MAG perk they need or that SPD perk they require since doing so will leave them with a big stat gap later on. The idea would be that after a certain amount of stat points is placed into a stat, let's say 20 points for argument sake, they then gain a perk based on that stat. It shouldn't be game breaking, but something useful.

Example: Sen only has 1 stat she can get a perk with: MAG. he needs 2 level ups to gain a perk in SPD, but that would leave her low stats even lower. Icarus however has 4 stats she can get a perk in, but it means leaving her DEF and RES at a lower point and thus weakening her to damage.

The example is just a mock up, but the point makes it through I think. It rewards the player with evenly distributing points, while awarding perks when milestones are hit.

Suggestions or Ideas?

@PN, *sadface* :(
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Quote from: Discord
Suika, Drinker of Sake - Today at 9:11 PM
"...I really don't know why Cu chulainn made that last promise because he is physically incapable of keeping it in his pants, it is like his junk is some kind of unruly seamonster or moray eel telescoping out of its holster and harpooning ladies left and right"
Johnny Jokotaru sent Kars down under

Akroma

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #7558 on: December 03, 2014, 03:35:51 pm »

might be worthwhile, though what are the milestones set at? Also, I do not want to restat Icarus

then again, it completely removes the part where higher tier perks are stronger, as aquiring them would require huge amounts of stats dedicated. I think level requirements are better. The perks being tied to your highest stat has always been more of a suggestion than a strict rule, so if someone really wants a cool mag perk, eventhough it is not their highest stat, so be it
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 03:38:40 pm by Akroma »
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Find comfort in that most people of intelligence jeer at the inmost mysteries, if superior minds were ever placed in fullest contact with the secrets preserved by
 ancient and lowly cults, the resultant abnormalities would soon not only wreck the world, but threathen the very ingerity of the cosmos

USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Rise of the Magic Girls v3 OOC: More characters for the character throne!
« Reply #7559 on: December 03, 2014, 03:39:32 pm »

Actually... That would change absolutely nothing. You're still gaining an average of 1 perk every 5 levels. It's just that you don't automatically gain the perk, since they're handed out based on stat distribution. In fact, it'd probably encourage people to place stats in blocks of 20, since that's when you gain a perk. Or something. I don't see see the point myself.
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