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All the time.

2 (13.3%)

Sometimes.

9 (60%)

Only when there's a new release.

2 (13.3%)

Never. ((get out))

2 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 13

[Sanure]

Works for me. So voting shows:

Yes, but leave the feudal system alone- 6 votes
Yes, everything needs reworking- 1 vote
No, it's fine as is- 0 votes.


Firsts topic of this reworking: Demon race and classification.

I propose the following system for determining demon's jobs and race statistics: ((This will be set up like a classification table))

Race: ((This will be either Demon (for a greater demon) or Devil (for a lesser demon)
Subrace: ((What kind of demon you are.))
Classification: ((What aspect do you represent))
Job: (( What your hellish hobby is))
Rank: ((How far are you on the demon totempole?))

An example:
Sen
Race: Demon
Subrace: Greed
Classification: Knowledge
Job: Lawyer
Rank: Compendium (Due to her being the eater of knowledge, which is a rather high ranking for a greed demon.))

If you make a demon you don't have to list all of this. It is mainly just fluff. But it does fit in with our current lore a lot better than:
"Your demonic job is you race" thing. Demon's are not hive-minded creatures.

Any other suggestions? Since this is a collective rewrite~

FAKE EDIT: I was ninja'd by Kansa oAo

[USEC_OFFICER]

So what would we like to change in the hell lore?

Well... Adding in some hell lore. Because right now all I know is that hell exists, demons live there and... they don't seem to have a point/purpose. They are half-void, half-creation after all, so they were obviously made for a reason. We're mostly trying to slot them into the cosmology we have set up so that they don't exist for the sake of existing.

...

I'm still thinking of reasons myself.

Any other suggestions? Since this is a collective rewrite~

First of all I'd make demon/devil interchangeable. Using one term for weaker beings and the other for stronger ones seems a bit silly to me. They're the same mythological creature, the difference is just how powerful they are after all. So instead of subraces there'd just be the 7 races of demons. Or maybe more since we don't have to follow Christian mythology that closely.

Secondly I think that listing rank as a title isn't very informative, since demons are in a loose feudal structure their titles can vary widely. I don't know what to replace it with though, since measuring the relative power levels of demons would be a nightmare. I would suggest how far removed they are from Satan in the hierarchy as an alternative, but that isn't much better. Satan has his own imps running around as messengers after all, and suggesting that they're on the same tier as his major vassals is wrong. I think that the value of their own souls is a better idea for showing relative prestige levels between demons. After all, if you have a lot of vassals you have a lot of people collecting and tending to souls for you, whereas if you're collecting souls you don't have time to catch and look after the few you own.

Everything else looks good though. I'll vomit up my ideas on how demons use/view souls in a bit.

[Sanure]

Okay, Instead of Rank also being your title, How about this:

Race: ((This will be either Demon (for a greater demon) or Devil (for a lesser demon)))
Subrace: ((What kind of demon you are. There are more than))
Classification: ((What aspect do you represent))
Job: (( What your hellish hobby is))
Rank: ((How far are you on the demon totempole?))
Title: ((This is what your demon is known by. Demons have true names, but tend to go by this name instead, due to subjugation possibilities.))

AS for the Race thing, Demons are typically of the Seven deadly sins veriety, while a devil can be anything under the sun. However What I am proposing is that Demon and Devil only be used as a naming convention to signify if you are a Greater demon or a lesser demon. Otherwise the two aren't that different.

[IamanElfCollaborator]

*stares around, before scuttling out of my shell*
And where would the Ars Goetia demons under the Seal of Solomon fall under all this?

[Sanure]

They would keep their ranks and serve directly under lucifer as normal.

[USEC_OFFICER]

Title: ((This is what your demon is known by. Demons have true names, but tend to go by this name instead, due to subjugation possibilities.))

I'm not against having demons hold titles. They're in a feudalistic society, so titles are important. I'm mostly thinking about making the different fields as clear as possible. So rename title to... aliases I guess. And include their title as part of their name. Like Compendium Sen or something like that.

However What I am proposing is that Demon and Devil only be used as a naming convention to signify if you are a Greater demon or a lesser demon. Otherwise the two aren't that different.

I understand that. The problem that I have is what you outlined. The terms demon/devil are interrelated but not entirely separate so they are rather interchangeable. So using those words to signify the power level of these creatures doesn't strike me as a good idea since it'll just make things more muddled.

...

That being said, if you included many more races into this naming convention, and included several arbitrary and vague rules for what is more powerful than what, then I'd be all for it. Demons are rather prideful after all, and I'm pretty sure that after several billion years demon count etiquette would be absolutely incomprehensible to a mortal, since it'd be full of exceptions, special cases and important but rarely used rules. None of which we'll actually lay out exactly. We'll leave them vague and make up shit on the spot for humour.

*stares around, before scuttling out of my shell*
And where would the Ars Goetia demons under the Seal of Solomon fall under all this?

Essentially it's more of a club or something than anything else. Demonic hierarchy isn't set in stone, and it's been several centuries since the Ars Goetia was made. Ranks would be shifted around, and some demons would fall out of favour while other, unnamed ones rise into favour.


Also, I've thought of a reason why demons exist. Since their realm is the closest to the wall of stars, they could have originally been created to hunt down Void creatures, to stop them from messing up creation. Again. It's just that in the past several billion years they've gotten more obsessed with collecting souls and jockeying for position than doing their job. A job which is probably taken up by the angels anyways.

[Sanure]

Well, titles are more the names that Demon's call each other. As where The group may call Sen by her human name, Demons, Like maybe Andras or Lucifer, etc, would call her by Compendium.

An example would be, While a human may call Lucifer by Satan, A fellow demon would call him by Lucifer, if that makes any sense.

As for the Devil/Demon thing, You actually make a good point. Give me a few and I'll make a comprehensive example list.

[PrivateNomad]

I suggest that we all call demons demons, for the sake of simplicity. Demons and imps. And yuki-onna. And all the other demons from other mythologies.

[Rolepgeek]

Well, if we go by various historical stuff, Demons are more chaotic and destructive and direct, while Devils are more sly and cunning and subtle.

So there's that.

[Sanure]

Ok, So as an example list using basic demonology and hierarchy: (Starting at the highest ranking))

Emperor (To which Lucifer is the only one.)
Great Kings of Hell
Kings of Hell
Great Prince of Hell
Prince of Hell
Great Marquises
Marquises
Great Dukes
Dukes
Great Earls
Earls
Great Presidents
Presidents
Knights
Great Marshals
Sloth
Greed
Pride
Wrath
Envy
Lust
Gluttony
Incubus
Succubus
Drudes
Goblins
Imp
Cambion

[Kansa]

Wouldn't Succubus and Incubus be tied into lust?

[PrivateNomad]

Day 21545, still no Akroma.

[IamanElfCollaborator]

Don't say that. You might speak too soon.

[Kansa]

* Kansa frowns

[Sanure]

I listed Succubus and Incubus separate since there are different kinds of Incubus and Succubus, and not all of them are tied into Lust.